I bought two Colt custom shop pistols (WWI Repros), new, in the last two years for $899, from authorized dealers. They are superb, and a great value in a true 1911. DW are very nice also, but Colt is putting out some of the better 1911's for the money, and a new National Match or S70 Repro are next on my list.
Help me out: Colt XSE or Dan Wesson Guardian?
- Thread starter Aristides
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thinkingman
New member
The idea that Toyota/Lexus is superior quality is a myth.
And an expensive one.
Having owned two Toyota's over the past 10 years, and spending $60k to find out they are no better than many other manufacturers.
People try to convince themselves Toyota is better, but I can assure you and have plenty of evidence, they're not.
Lexus is probably THE most overrated automotive experience there is.
The new ES is so obviously a Camry with a tasteless cosmetic treatment(much like their drivers!) yet the buyers will tell you how that's just not true.
Ridiculous.
Don't get me started on Tacoma/Tundra drivers and their inflated sense of quality.
Mercedes(the real thing, just like BMW and Audi) drivers NEED that 400hp to get around the unattractive blond in the Lexus, applying more makeup and talking on her cell phone while traffic backs up behind them.
Anyhooo, at least we agree that Colt doesn't compete with Dan Wesson in terms of quality.
thinkingman
New member
The idea that Toyota/Lexus is superior quality is a myth.
And an expensive one.
Having owned two Toyota's over the past 10 years, and spending $60k to find out they are no better than many other manufacturers.
People try to convince themselves Toyota is better, but I can assure you and have plenty of evidence, they're not.
Lexus is probably THE most overrated automotive experience there is.
The new ES is so obviously a Camry with a tasteless cosmetic treatment(much like their drivers!) yet the buyers will tell you how that's just not true.
Ridiculous.
Don't get me started on Tacoma/Tundra drivers and their inflated sense of quality.
Mercedes(the real thing, just like BMW and Audi) drivers NEED that 400hp to get around the unattractive blond in the Lexus, applying more makeup and talking on her cell phone while traffic backs up behind them.
Lexus is known as the brand for status, not performance.
Anyhooo, at least we agree that Colt doesn't compete with Dan Wesson in terms of quality.
The Guardian is going to be your best choice for what your looking for a carry 1911. Its lighter(aluminum frame), easier to conceal(bobtail frame, commander length) and the Duty finish on the Dan Wesson is among the most durable finishes on the market for handguns.
Having owned over a dozen Colt's from with production dates from the 80's to 2012 including a two Colt Special Combat's and three newer production Dan Wesson's including a Guardian in 9mm I can say that Dan Wesson puts out a much nicer built 1911. Colt's are well made and reliable but Dan Wesson has them beat in fit, finish and overall quality of parts.
However, RELIABILITY of Dan Wesson's are not as proven as Colt IMO because Colt's are a little more "combat fit". This is not to say Dan Wesson's can't be very reliable I just think that with Colt you might have less issues at least in the first 1000 rounds.
Having owned over a dozen Colt's from with production dates from the 80's to 2012 including a two Colt Special Combat's and three newer production Dan Wesson's including a Guardian in 9mm I can say that Dan Wesson puts out a much nicer built 1911. Colt's are well made and reliable but Dan Wesson has them beat in fit, finish and overall quality of parts.
However, RELIABILITY of Dan Wesson's are not as proven as Colt IMO because Colt's are a little more "combat fit". This is not to say Dan Wesson's can't be very reliable I just think that with Colt you might have less issues at least in the first 1000 rounds.
Madcap_Magician
New member
The Dan Wesson is superior to the Colt in just about every way, save that the Dan Wesson doesn't have a pony on it. As a base gun for custom work, the Colt is a better choice. But the Dan Wesson has a more wear- and corrosion-resistant finish, better sights, has been properly dehorned (Colts have razor-sharp edges on the dust cover and front of the slide in particular), and will have an overall better fit and finish.
Another to add to the mix. Remington just announced its carry/Commander-size R1. Blued, all steel. Proper 4.25" like Colts, DW, the new Ruger, etc. I have read grumblings already about its ca $1300 MSRP--street price $1000-1100?--but it's also true this is no "base" R1 judging from some of the features. Sweet looking regardless, and great that they're offering it in blue.
(Source: Guns & Ammo Magazine)
Of the ones listed by the OP, I like the Guardian as well, especially as a "serious" carry piece; Valor/Bob if you can swing it. The Commander field was very sparse not too long ago, with most choices in the DW and above territory. Interesting (and nice) how others are finally joining in the party.
(Source: Guns & Ammo Magazine)
Of the ones listed by the OP, I like the Guardian as well, especially as a "serious" carry piece; Valor/Bob if you can swing it. The Commander field was very sparse not too long ago, with most choices in the DW and above territory. Interesting (and nice) how others are finally joining in the party.
Having owned the last production Mercedes Benz that was built and designed by engineers not bean counters, a 560 SEC & an Audi A8 for about 8 years now I can tell you German automobiles are many things reliable they are not. Toyota quality is not as high as it once was but it trumps MB and even the up and coming Audi/VW, I also own a VW.... In order to get that performance from a MB, BMW or Audi you go in eyes wide open that you are giving up reliability.
Yes you will be able to pass that Lexus but your windows will not go back up, your seats are stuck in the same position, your sun roof leaks, your head liner fell a decade ago, your Tiptronic transmission might go into limp mode etc...... Trust me they might be able to go like a bat out of hell but they are not reliable.
This is why your car analogy fails. It simply does not apply because the difference between the Colt and DW is mostly cosmetic. It is not a real world performance difference. In 99% of shooters hands a Dan Wesson cannot do anything that a Colt cannot do. It might be prettier it might have a better finish but it is not going to perform better for 99% of shooters. For the 99% it is the Indian not the arrow that makes the difference. Statistically the Dan Wesson will not be more reliable than a Colt. A good shooter is going to be able to hit their target at 15, 25 and 50 yards with the same degree of consistency with either gun. IMHO YMMV
Now that does not mean one should not get a Dan Wesson over a Colt but the decision is not as objective as you attempt to make it. In terms of overall quality I would consider these two production guns pretty equal. What you are paying for in the DW is cosmetic it is the finishing touches which may or may not matter to you.
Back to the OP you made a solid choice. Enjoy your Colt.
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Cosmetics is actually only the beginning. Most Dan Wesson's can shoot right up their with the custom brand 1911's in terms of accuracy and it has been proven on several tests comparing them on 1911forum. In addition Dan Wesson actually sets all their triggers at 4.5 lbs and they break consistently clean with no creep. A typically Colt from my sample of over a dozen has so such guarantee.
Combine the mechanical accuracy of the Dan Wesson with a excellent trigger and someone who can actually shoot will in fact notice a difference. Because you cannot doesn't mean that another shooter will not.
In addition Dan Wesson uses tool steel parts for the fire control group, bar stock steel for the thumb safety and has no MIM parts. So quality of parts would also go to Dan Wesson.
I will say that the Wiley Clapp is probably the best carry 1911 that Colt has to offer and has a lot of features for the money.
Combine the mechanical accuracy of the Dan Wesson with a excellent trigger and someone who can actually shoot will in fact notice a difference. Because you cannot doesn't mean that another shooter will not.
In addition Dan Wesson uses tool steel parts for the fire control group, bar stock steel for the thumb safety and has no MIM parts. So quality of parts would also go to Dan Wesson.
I will say that the Wiley Clapp is probably the best carry 1911 that Colt has to offer and has a lot of features for the money.
I think you are missing the point of my statements. In 99% of peoples hands the mechanical accuracy of a particular gun is not going to make a real world difference. One should not give advice to someone buying their first 1911 as if they are in the 1% of shooters. Most people cannot shoot a 5" group at 50 yards which is what the poor Colt shot in Dave Severns 2010 shootout. Most people cannot hit a man sized target at 50 yards.
Here is a link to Dave's Shootout http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=255555
Tests like Dave's are shot out of a ransom rest. How many people can get even close to the mechanical accuracy of any 1911 in a rest? Honestly ask yourself can you shoot sub 2" groups are 50 yards???? I know I cannot. I know that I have a hard time keeping shots on paper at 50 yards and when I look around the range at other peoples targets mine for the most part look better than most.
Since most people cannot maximize the mechanical accuracy inherent in the gun the mechanical accuracy of this 1911 vs that 1911 becomes less meaningful. Not irrelevant but less meaningful for 99% of us if we are being honest with ourselves. Again does it make sense to give advice to someone buying their first 1911 as if they are in that 1%. For the avg person and IMHO to this OP one has to ask is it worth 50% more? A Colt being $900 give or take and a Dan Wesson Valor being $1500+ depending on finish. The law of diminishing returns is really kicking in. It is up to each person to make that calculation. It is not something which can be stated as if it were objective truth.
Too many people think that higher price = better gun performance. This is not always the case. If higher price = better shooting gun the Ed Brown Kobra should have shot the tightest group right? In Severns test it did not but tests like his are too small a sample to draw universally meaningful conclusions.
I am in no way arguing that one should not pay for quality steel tool parts or that the overall fit and finish of a particular gun is not worth paying for. I certainly have and will continue to pay for it. I just think people give good advice, like buy a DW, that is too often not based in the practical reality. I own A Dan Wesson CBOB because I wanted one. I own a Les Baer TRS because I valued the work and craftsmanship that went into it not because it can shoot sub 2" groups out of a rest and my Colt 70 Repo couldn't.
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Madcap_Magician
New member
Oh, the other thing about Colts being more reliable...
Admittedly this is a sample size of one, but I had a new Combat Elite about a year ago that took four months at the factory before it would feed hollow points.
Admittedly this is a sample size of one, but I had a new Combat Elite about a year ago that took four months at the factory before it would feed hollow points.
Can just say that in my humble and accurate opinion 
I own a Colt and owned an Ed Brown but foolishly sold it. I just bought a Dan Wesson ECO and because of its quality and performance, I am now going to get a DW Guardian. I will tell you that the Colt comes no where close to the Ed Brown, but DW comes pretty close to the Eddy Brown. Your mileage may vary. For the money I will take a DW.
I own a Colt and owned an Ed Brown but foolishly sold it. I just bought a Dan Wesson ECO and because of its quality and performance, I am now going to get a DW Guardian. I will tell you that the Colt comes no where close to the Ed Brown, but DW comes pretty close to the Eddy Brown. Your mileage may vary. For the money I will take a DW.PatientWolf
New member
You may not have noticed, but the OP purchased his Wiley Clapp nearly 4 years ago.
I know the thread is old and the OP made a choice, BUT in my anecdotal experience.
I've had most of the production brands (S&W, SIG, Springfield, Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Remington, RIA... I think that's it). I no longer own any colts and I'll never part ways with my VBob. Any of the other ones I currently own can go, but not the DW.
Short of a Wilson or Les Baer, my future purchases will all be Wessons as well.
I've had most of the production brands (S&W, SIG, Springfield, Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Remington, RIA... I think that's it). I no longer own any colts and I'll never part ways with my VBob. Any of the other ones I currently own can go, but not the DW.
Short of a Wilson or Les Baer, my future purchases will all be Wessons as well.