Help me! I'm weakening!
- Thread starter buzz_knox
- Start date
Danny45, I too am sorry about your poor experience with Smith & Wesson products. Politics aside, here's what a former Marine had to say to me (in an e-mail message) about S&W pistols ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... I picked up two 4513tsw one is the old syle without the rail and one with the rail. I read your comment on try to get the older style, so i got both. They are very nice to shoot. I traded two glocks in for the 4513tsw. Glocks cannot touch the quality of the smiths. I was deceived for 1 year about them. What i did with the 4513 at the range the first time out took me six months to accomplish with the 26 and 19. [emphasis added by me] Plus there isn't any saftey on the glocks! I am sold on Smith's, not the Company but their quality pistols. This is just my opinion and expierence with the glocks. I did a six year tour in the Marines in 60 to 66. Fired the 45 and hated it! Now i love it. I do not understand. Thanks for all your post on TFL and the Smith Forum. I value your expierence and knowledge on handguns ...[/quote]FUD
Share what you know & learn what you don't
rock_jock and FUD,
Sorry, I got a little carried away. I can't fault the function part except on the Model 15 I carried in the service. The ejector rod/plunger would back out and jam it locking up the cylinder where you couldn't open it. Made timed drills a little fun. We weren't allowed to mess with them. Only an "armorer" could do that. Needless to say, it was a continuous problem for me. You'd have to stop and try to screw it back in with your finger tips before you could open it. And I just wasn't accurate with it or their other revolvers and I always hated the semi's triggers. Sorry again for getting carried away.
Danny
Sorry, I got a little carried away. I can't fault the function part except on the Model 15 I carried in the service. The ejector rod/plunger would back out and jam it locking up the cylinder where you couldn't open it. Made timed drills a little fun. We weren't allowed to mess with them. Only an "armorer" could do that. Needless to say, it was a continuous problem for me. You'd have to stop and try to screw it back in with your finger tips before you could open it. And I just wasn't accurate with it or their other revolvers and I always hated the semi's triggers. Sorry again for getting carried away.
Danny
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
However, the END RESULT is the SAME -- the second largest handgun maker in the world will be no more and the anti's get their wish and the boycott'ers will have given it to them.[/quote]
So long as they are dead, I don't care who kills them, though I'd hope that supporters of the Second Ammendment were responsible for it. Just make sure those traitorous scum pay for their evil deeds. Yes, S&W must die!
Please folks, don't buy any post-sellout S&W's. There are thousands and thousands of pre-sellout S&W guns on the market, buy those if you have the desire for an S&W.
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Just one of the Good Guys
However, the END RESULT is the SAME -- the second largest handgun maker in the world will be no more and the anti's get their wish and the boycott'ers will have given it to them.[/quote]
So long as they are dead, I don't care who kills them, though I'd hope that supporters of the Second Ammendment were responsible for it. Just make sure those traitorous scum pay for their evil deeds. Yes, S&W must die!
Please folks, don't buy any post-sellout S&W's. There are thousands and thousands of pre-sellout S&W guns on the market, buy those if you have the desire for an S&W.
------------------
Just one of the Good Guys
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Danny45:
BB,
Maybe you know something about Ruger that I don't. You're more than welcome to e-mail me to enlighten if you wish. I confess that I don't ALWAYS read the news papers. But I do read alot of hunting and gun magazines and apparently have missed whatever it is you're talking about.
[/quote]
WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?
[Excerpted from http://survival.simplenet.com/rants.html#WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?]
{A question: why do you say Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people?}
Bill Ruger is THE PERSON who dreamed up the "10 round mag" idea. He was filmed with Tom Brokaw as Bill said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round mags or my folding stock" and "I see nothing wrong with waiting periods".
The next day after I saw that interview, I canceled a $20,000 order for Ruger products and have not bought ONE of his guns since!
This interview was used (with Bill Rugers permission) over and over again to rub our faces in the fact that "even a gun manufacture thinks gun control is good".
Following is an excerpt from the March 30, 1989 letter Bill Ruger sent to every member of Congress:
"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines.
By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item.
A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."
This letter was taken from the American Handgunner mag, dated Sept 1992 (pg. 18)
This self-serving degenerate was only kissing-ass to the Democrats to save his own butt, his government contracts and the Ruger Mini 14. He is a traitor in all sense of the word.
If you check EVERY gun ban, the Ruger Mini-14 is either not named, or specifically name as exempt.
Hence, Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people.
{To be a traitor, a person must change sides of a view. Has Bill shared your views in the past?}
Bill Ruger said (on national tv) "I see nothing wrong with a 15, or even a 30 day wait to buy a gun". He also said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
He than wrote a letter to EVERY member of congres, promoting the "10 round maximum" on mags.
Everything I say can be, and has been, verified. So you see, Bill Ruger, to save his own pocket-book, committed treason, not only on EVERY American, but every man, woman and child on this planet.
Note: Infomation and links courtsey Robert Firriolo.
The following is from an article which appeared in the December 1, 1989 issue of Gun Week.
Stephen Sanetti is Ruger's general counsel and frequent spokesperson.
[The following is from Neal Knox]
"Steve Sanetti says 'I know better' than to ascribe Bill Ruger's magazine ban proposal to business considerations. Maybe so; I don't think Bill is by any means 'anti-gun,' nor do I think he really _wants_ a ban on either guns or magazines (after all, he got his start as a machine gun designer). But I do think Bill Ruger is pushing a plan that would protect his business while affecting only his competitors, and I think he's damaging the efforts of those of us attempting to stop all proposed bans. Further, I don't think his actions on this issue, and other issues in the past, allows him to be described as 'the strongest supporter of our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.'
"What I _know_ is that about 9 p.m. the night before Bill sent a letter to certain members of Congress calling for a ban on high-capacity magazines he called me, wanting me to push such a ban. His opening words, after citing the many federal, state and local bills to ban detachable magazine semi-autos, were 'I want to save our little gun' -- which he later defined as the Mini-14 and the Mini-30. I'm not ascribing Bill's motives as 'expedient from a business standpoint;' Bill did.
"While I agree that a ban on over-15 magazines would be 'indefinitely preferable' to a ban on the guns that use them, that's not the question. Neither I, nor the other gun groups have ever believed that we were faced with such an either/or choice. Early last year the NRA legislative Policy committee discussed various alternatives to the proposed 'assault weapons' ban, and wisely decided that magazine restrictions wouldn't satisfy our foes, but would make it more difficult to stop a gun ban.
"I was particularly shocked when I realized Bill was talking about a ban on possession of over-15-round magazines, rather than a ban on sales (which is bad enough). I told him that such a law would make me a felon, for not only did I have standard over-15 magazines for my Glock pistol (a high-capacity which has sharply cut into Ruger's police business), I have many high-cap mags for guns I don't even own, and don't even know where they all are. As I told Bill, after a lifetime of accumulating miscellaneous gun parts and accessories, there's no way I could clean out all my old parts drawers and boxes, then swear -- subject to a five or ten-year Federal prison term -- that I absolutely didn't have an M3 grease gun mag or 30-round M-2 magazine lying in some forgotten drawer.
""Bill said (and all these direct quotes are approximate). 'No, there'd be amnesty for people like you. We have to propose a ban on possession before they could take us seriously.' He contended that the public's problem was with 'firepower,' which could be resolved by eliminating high capacity mags.
"I told him Metzenbaum and Co. would gladly use whatever he offered, but they weren't about to willingly agree to eliminate high-cap magazines as a substitute for banning guns; that their intention isn't to eliminate 'firepower' but 'firearms.'
"Bill finally said, 'Neal, you're being very negative about it.' He got angry, then said 'Well somebody's got to do it; by God I will.' And the next day he sent his letter to the Hill; the evidence indicates a few weeks later he talked SAAMI into supporting undefined 'regulation' of magazines over-15-rounds -- a vote that might have gone a little differently if any produced high-capacity magazines as standard for either rifles or pistols.
"I suspect that Ruger and SAAMI's actions are responsible, directly or indirectly, for the Bush administration's proposal to ban high-cap mags, but that proposal has been ignored -- except as evidence that 'the Bush administration and the American firearms industry recognize there's a problem -- that Americans shouldn't be allowed to have such guns.'
"Of course, that isn't what Bill Ruger and SAAMI are saying, but that's the message they're sending. Perhaps it isn't business expediency to propose banning only that which they don't make, in an effort to protect what they do make; but it sure can't be claimed to be in defense of the Second Amendment."
BB,
Maybe you know something about Ruger that I don't. You're more than welcome to e-mail me to enlighten if you wish. I confess that I don't ALWAYS read the news papers. But I do read alot of hunting and gun magazines and apparently have missed whatever it is you're talking about.
[/quote]
WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?
[Excerpted from http://survival.simplenet.com/rants.html#WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?]
{A question: why do you say Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people?}
Bill Ruger is THE PERSON who dreamed up the "10 round mag" idea. He was filmed with Tom Brokaw as Bill said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round mags or my folding stock" and "I see nothing wrong with waiting periods".
The next day after I saw that interview, I canceled a $20,000 order for Ruger products and have not bought ONE of his guns since!
This interview was used (with Bill Rugers permission) over and over again to rub our faces in the fact that "even a gun manufacture thinks gun control is good".
Following is an excerpt from the March 30, 1989 letter Bill Ruger sent to every member of Congress:
"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines.
By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item.
A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."
This letter was taken from the American Handgunner mag, dated Sept 1992 (pg. 18)
This self-serving degenerate was only kissing-ass to the Democrats to save his own butt, his government contracts and the Ruger Mini 14. He is a traitor in all sense of the word.
If you check EVERY gun ban, the Ruger Mini-14 is either not named, or specifically name as exempt.
Hence, Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people.
{To be a traitor, a person must change sides of a view. Has Bill shared your views in the past?}
Bill Ruger said (on national tv) "I see nothing wrong with a 15, or even a 30 day wait to buy a gun". He also said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
He than wrote a letter to EVERY member of congres, promoting the "10 round maximum" on mags.
Everything I say can be, and has been, verified. So you see, Bill Ruger, to save his own pocket-book, committed treason, not only on EVERY American, but every man, woman and child on this planet.
Note: Infomation and links courtsey Robert Firriolo.
The following is from an article which appeared in the December 1, 1989 issue of Gun Week.
Stephen Sanetti is Ruger's general counsel and frequent spokesperson.
[The following is from Neal Knox]
"Steve Sanetti says 'I know better' than to ascribe Bill Ruger's magazine ban proposal to business considerations. Maybe so; I don't think Bill is by any means 'anti-gun,' nor do I think he really _wants_ a ban on either guns or magazines (after all, he got his start as a machine gun designer). But I do think Bill Ruger is pushing a plan that would protect his business while affecting only his competitors, and I think he's damaging the efforts of those of us attempting to stop all proposed bans. Further, I don't think his actions on this issue, and other issues in the past, allows him to be described as 'the strongest supporter of our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.'
"What I _know_ is that about 9 p.m. the night before Bill sent a letter to certain members of Congress calling for a ban on high-capacity magazines he called me, wanting me to push such a ban. His opening words, after citing the many federal, state and local bills to ban detachable magazine semi-autos, were 'I want to save our little gun' -- which he later defined as the Mini-14 and the Mini-30. I'm not ascribing Bill's motives as 'expedient from a business standpoint;' Bill did.
"While I agree that a ban on over-15 magazines would be 'indefinitely preferable' to a ban on the guns that use them, that's not the question. Neither I, nor the other gun groups have ever believed that we were faced with such an either/or choice. Early last year the NRA legislative Policy committee discussed various alternatives to the proposed 'assault weapons' ban, and wisely decided that magazine restrictions wouldn't satisfy our foes, but would make it more difficult to stop a gun ban.
"I was particularly shocked when I realized Bill was talking about a ban on possession of over-15-round magazines, rather than a ban on sales (which is bad enough). I told him that such a law would make me a felon, for not only did I have standard over-15 magazines for my Glock pistol (a high-capacity which has sharply cut into Ruger's police business), I have many high-cap mags for guns I don't even own, and don't even know where they all are. As I told Bill, after a lifetime of accumulating miscellaneous gun parts and accessories, there's no way I could clean out all my old parts drawers and boxes, then swear -- subject to a five or ten-year Federal prison term -- that I absolutely didn't have an M3 grease gun mag or 30-round M-2 magazine lying in some forgotten drawer.
""Bill said (and all these direct quotes are approximate). 'No, there'd be amnesty for people like you. We have to propose a ban on possession before they could take us seriously.' He contended that the public's problem was with 'firepower,' which could be resolved by eliminating high capacity mags.
"I told him Metzenbaum and Co. would gladly use whatever he offered, but they weren't about to willingly agree to eliminate high-cap magazines as a substitute for banning guns; that their intention isn't to eliminate 'firepower' but 'firearms.'
"Bill finally said, 'Neal, you're being very negative about it.' He got angry, then said 'Well somebody's got to do it; by God I will.' And the next day he sent his letter to the Hill; the evidence indicates a few weeks later he talked SAAMI into supporting undefined 'regulation' of magazines over-15-rounds -- a vote that might have gone a little differently if any produced high-capacity magazines as standard for either rifles or pistols.
"I suspect that Ruger and SAAMI's actions are responsible, directly or indirectly, for the Bush administration's proposal to ban high-cap mags, but that proposal has been ignored -- except as evidence that 'the Bush administration and the American firearms industry recognize there's a problem -- that Americans shouldn't be allowed to have such guns.'
"Of course, that isn't what Bill Ruger and SAAMI are saying, but that's the message they're sending. Perhaps it isn't business expediency to propose banning only that which they don't make, in an effort to protect what they do make; but it sure can't be claimed to be in defense of the Second Amendment."
Find a dealer that has decided to stop carrying S&W. Purchase from them as they will not be restocking with new product. The rebate, if still in effect, should still be valid.
I feel your pain. I have a 642 and I love it. I'd hate to be in your situation, as I don't think the Taurus airweight clones are as good as the S&W's.
Regards,
Longshot
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NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC
Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our local "No compromise" chapter of the GOA. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
I feel your pain. I have a 642 and I love it. I'd hate to be in your situation, as I don't think the Taurus airweight clones are as good as the S&W's.
Regards,
Longshot
------------------
NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC
Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our local "No compromise" chapter of the GOA. http://www.oregonfirearms.org