Help me choose an AR-15

L

Legionnaire

New member
I'd like to pick up an AR-15 but know very little about them, being primarily a bolt gun shooter. Here are my "newbie" questions, probably biased by my bolt gun experience. I'm not looking for match grade accuracy here; just a practical gun that I can train and plink with.

First: pre- or post- ban? Are there practical reasons to pay the extra for a pre-ban version? I don't need a bayonet lug, or a grenade launcher. Do I need a threaded barrel and/or collapsable stock? I know they look cool, but what are their practical benefits? Wouldn't a crowned HBAR tend to be more accurate than a threaded barrel with flash hider/muzzle break? Wouldn't a solid (sic) stock support better accuracy?

Second question: preferred manufacturer? I've heard some say "it's gotta be all Colt," and others swear by Bushmaster. What about ArmaLite, or Olympic Arms, or DPMS, or . . . others I'm not aware of? What about a lower from one manufacturer and an upper from another? What about "building" a gun on a stripped lower? (I know that one can only build a "pre-ban" gun on a stripped lower if the lower was part of a fully assembled weapon prior to the federal ban.)

Third: any downside to a flattop upper? Seems it would give many more options with regard to sights, not to mention getting the sight plane closer to the bore, and one can always add a carry handle for the "traditional" look.

Last (for now :) ): suggested barrel length to get accuracy to MOA or better? I know the 16" barrels are handy (but what's the point of an 11" barrel with 5" flash hider?), but wouldn't accuracy be better out of a 20" or longer barrel?

Thanks in advance for your help. Suggested web or library resource pointers also welcome.
 
DZ,

Cool link, looks like about every previous post on the same question :) That should keep them reading and studing for days.

Karsten

Legionaire, in short my choice would be a 16 inch Bushmaster Dissapator for an all around AR15.
Reason, full 20 inch sight radius, chrome barrel and bore, Mil spec and chambered for 5.56 and not commercial .223 and it has a heavy barrel.

Then again, note.....that is if you only have one :rolleyes: I only had one of those and then a BM VMatch, then a Stoner M4 and soon a Preban BM A2

Then there is the matter of how many mags one truly needs, I have 40 and I am not sure just yet.

Maybe you should save yourself the agrievation and buy a Mini 14 form Wally World...it doesn't seem that Mini 14 owners buy more than one :p

Good luck....another one bites the dust and a another one gone, another one bites the dust.

Karsten
 
Duh! Should have thought of that myself; thanks, dz. And you're right, Karsten; lots of good stuff already here. Funny how when one moves into an unfamiliar area, one forgets fundamentals . . . like check the archives :rolleyes:
 
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For the money you will not find a better AR-15 than the AR15.com LEGP http://www.ar15.com and then ckick on the public forums and then the LEGP forum. Or just click here http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=60 I love my LEGP, it's a real tack driver!!! I also have a OKO reflex sight and Tac carry handle. THe wife also enjoys shooting the LEGP.

The sale price on both the LEGP and accessories will be over 31 Aug so now is the time to purchase one:D :cool:
 
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Legionnaire,

I can only speak for my experiences. I have two Colt Match Targets, a pre-and a post-ban rifle. Both shoot fairly well, certainly better than I can shoot them. One of the advantages of the post-ban seems to be the crowned muzzle, a common accuracy trick. But for that matter, I suppose that you could crown the barrel of a pre-ban with the flash suppressor. I would not pay the extra for a pre-ban rifle unless it seemed to be a very good specimen.

My local dealer did order a Bushmaster for one of our crowd and most of us who handled it (to include some former Colt employees) were impressed by it's fit and finish. If you ran your hand along the inside surfaces they felt very smooth and the whole rifle seemed well manufactured. This in itself does not gaurantee any accuracy, but if you start with a well-made and fitted rifle, you should have better accuracy than one which was just thrown together.

I hope you find a good one that you like, no matter what you buy.
 
Build your own!

The AR-15 is a wonderfully simple and modular weapon. You really ought to build one yourself.

First, get a Marine Corp technical manual for the M-16 for about $6, from Brownell's. Read that and also read the info on ar15.com. They have detailed instructions, too. Then get some tools--Screwdrivers, torque wrench. You might also need to get a military surplus AR-15/M-16 wrench tool for a few more bucks.

I got a stripped lower receiver from someone at ar15.com for about $100. It was made by PWA--"Pacific West Arms" of Milan, Illinois. A little birdie tells me that it is the same company that makes receivers for the folks at Wilson Combat. Lowers are available from Bushmaster, ASA, Olympic Arms, and lots of other sources. Shop around and get one transferred to you through your FFL.

I then got a 16" A2 carbine kit from J & T Distributing. They are a very helpful and pleasant company to deal with. The current price for what I got is $440. The kit is manufactured by some military contractor, reportedly FN, and includes everything to turn the lower into a complete gun. The barrel is already correctly installed on the upper receiver and correctly headspaced. Many kits are available--20", bull-barreled, flattop, as well as genuine Colt M-4 kits. Such kits are available elsewhere too, such as Bushmaster.

I then spent an enjoyable afternoon putting my rifle together. You also need to get some magazines, a sling, and perhaps a front sight adjustment tool.

Cost: $6 + $100 + $440 + FFL fees + magazines + accessories + some of your time == Much cheaper than buying one already made. Of course you would have no customer service for the entire gun, but you probably won't need it. The J&T Distributing parts are top-notch and their customer service has been great. After putting the thing together, you would probably have the know-how to service it yourself if the need arose.

Of course, if you start tacking on all sorts of accessories such as optics, flashlights, accessory rails, lasers, and so forth, the cost would go way up. The only accessory I used was the plastic Ergo-Grip because it is much more comfortable than the standard grip.

My completed gun has never malfunctioned and is very accurate. I tell my friends, "I done and builted it my own self." and they gasp with admiration.
 
I also have a Bushmaster Dissipator that I like a lot (although it is a little front-heavy - I wish it had a fluted barrel to cut a little weight). I also built an AR from a kit (20" free-floated stainless bull barrel). I had a few headaches getting it together (some out-of-spec parts, and no previous experience). Given my experience, and that of a friend who also built one, I would recommend buying a complete rifle rather than building from a kit unless you REALLY want to spend hours tinkering and maybe weeks waiting for replacement parts or othewise trouble-shooting. I don't doubt that some go together easily and work fine right off, but neither of ours did and they were both from different reputable companies. I also think highly of Bushmasters. I would just get the one that appeals to you.

The main appeal of a pre-ban to me is the folding stock, but I don't think it is worth the premium you pay for pre-ban (roughly the cost of two post-ban rifles of equal quality). Only you can decided if it is worth it to you, and it sounds like you already have.

I agree that the flattop is more versatile, although I don't think it will get your "sight plane closer to the bore" if you plan to use iron sights (I think most AR sights are set fairly high to fit the stock). Of course, you can mount a scope lower on a flattop than on the carry handle.

I think the flat top with removable carry handle/sights is prohibited from some types of competition, but I'm not sure of this. Also, the knobs of the removable carry handle stick out some. I'd say if you want to use iron sights 90% of the time, go with the fixed handle, if you want to use optics (red dot or scope) very often, get a flat top (maybe with folding or removable iron sights - probably not the removable carry handle unless you get it "free" with the rifle or just want it for the look).

I like 16" barrels, and I don't think 20" are any more accurate, although the longer sight radius would help a little, and the fact that most highly accurate rifles come with 20" or longer barrels may make it seem that way. I think 16" and 20" barrels of equal quality will be equally accurate. Of course, the longer barrel will give slightly higher velocity, so the same ammo will shoot slightly flatter with the longer barrel.

Doug
 
I'll second the recommendation for the AR15.COM Limited Edition rifle. I am very happy with mine, it's very accurate and 100% reliable so far. It's digested everything I've fed it, and shoots with plastic and USGI mags 100%. It's a keeper, and it's $660 including shipping to your FFL. Drop in at AR15.COM and check it out, the price is good until the end of the month.
 
Rock River

My AR experience is limited. But, I did some research and ended up with the LEGP from ar15.com ... a friend of mine (who is a Colt/Armalite AR junkie) was eye rolling and poo pooing my choice. He is neither eye rolling nor poo-pooing after looking at my rifle.

The FFL to which I shipped my rifle sold a lot of Bushmasters, Colts and Armalites. After looking at my Rock River they are going to add another manufacturer to their lineup.

Add in the fact that if anyone knows ARs inside out it would be the lads at AR15.com and look who they chose...

Well, I'm not saying Rock River is BETTER than the Big Three, but they seem to be comparable, and a lot cheaper.

Mine shoots very nicely, too.

Mike
 
I will throw in the towel and admit that I do feel the RRA and the LEGP AR15.com carbine is a bargain.
Sure BM is Chrome lined and the RRA is not...so what, take pride in what you own and clean it.
The price is right and a hell of a lot better than trying to piece meal a mix master yourself, this upper, their lower, what parts kit, geez you still need a stock and all the tools......so you get it together like a model car and it looks great but doesn't go bang......Where do you send it to be fixed :confused: DID YOU GET A WARRANTY WITH THE KIT that stated it would all work.....4 weeks later and then another 4 weeks at smith and maybe you shall have a Mix Master that will run.
Great, you have paid more than the BM and the RRA.....now try to sell it cause you want a good one....your $440 parts guns and the $400 you had to pay to get it complete is still a $440.00 parts gun to most of us. So unless you buy a lot of mags you will be lucky to get the $440.

I only have one bitch with the RRA LEGP and that is the 14.5 inch barrel and the brake...I think they could have gone with the 16 inch M4 profile and had an awesome weapon.....But that is just my opinion, I still think it is a great deal.

Here, this isn't chrome lined and I could have bought 2 RRA's and 2 cases of ammo.....but geez, I have to clean it...like I wouldn't anyhow.
73110_M4gery.jpg


Trust me it wont be your last AR....Go fro the LEGP from AR15.com

Karsten
 
The AR-15.COM LEGP does have a M-4 profile 16" barrel with fake pressed on M-16 flash suppressor. Chrome lining only comes into play when firing full auto for hundereds of rounds without cleaning in combat conditions. Normal or even SHTF use the LEGP will suffer no side effects from lack of a chrome lining.


Here is a link to the LEGP spec's and how to order one. http://www.ar15.com/forums/announcement.html?id=15 If you want to order on click on the Caastle-Arms link.

Also check out all the kool accessories at a superb discounted price. The only way you can get the extras is by ordering a LEGP though.
 
Karsten,

The AR15.COM LEGP has a 16" barrel with a rather cleverly done fake flash supressor, no muzzle brake. The only thing I'd add if cost were no object would be the chrome lining, but it really doesn't bother me that it doesn't have it. Mine has shot 100%, and it's probably more accurate than I am.
 
Well, that is good to know. I thought the RRA was the 14.5 for some reason.....read it in a post or something maybe before the final decissions were made.

Thanks for clarifing the barrel lenth.

Karsten
 
There was discussion of a muzzle brake when the LEGP was being configured, but a majority of folks in the queue to buy one nixed it. Personally, I didn't want one, and I prefer the extra barrel length. While the flash hider is only cosmetic on this gun, it was done VERY nicely, and really does add a finished look to the gun. :)
 
Johnwill,
Birdcage FH on the Stoner above is totally fake as well and I am glad. I hear nothing but exessive noise from the brakes and heck....it is just a .223. Darn if I would have known that they had the 16 inch barrel I would have ordered one and had a carbie to mount my 37MM launcher to :rolleyes:

Karsten
 
Well, you can still get one until the end of August, check over at AR15.COM in the LEGP section. It really is a nice rifle, and damned reasonable at $660 shipped.
 
Another vote for the AR15.COM LEGP.

I received mine on Friday and shot 400 rounds in past 3 days with no FTF of any kind. The finish is better than anything else I have seen and the fit comes close to some of the "big" name custom makers that charge 3 times as much or more. I haven't had the opportunity to check the accuracy yet but at 50 yards I was consistantly getting 1" group for 10 shots using a Tasco Red Dot sight.

As much as I like my Bushmaster AR, I think the LEGP AR is much better and for less money.
i386078B6-F2B1-4F28-9E77-B31E9950AE35.jpg
 
Johnwill,
I would but I have a Preban to pay off, a scope mount to buy, ARMS rings and a few other things or I would jump right in. It is just the right setup to mount the 37MM launcher.
I would just need 120 days to get it all paid off or the closing after the next one is paid off.

Damn, I hate them all...AR's are evil, they are bad, you can't stop with just one....
Okay Hummmmmmm, Hummmmmmmmmm... now relax and say, I wont buy another AR, again Hummmmmm, cross your legs and say I wont buy another AR....I feel much better.....
The Gods have spoken and told me it would be okay to buy a M96 and pentantacy shall be paid......

Thank the AR God's they forgave me, this time :rolleyes:

Karsten
 
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