Help me avoid dangerous reloading situation

D

David Blinder

New member
Had a spooky event today. Went over and shot some .45 230gr FMJ reloads at the range and had a squib. Looks like somehow, a case didn't get a powder charge but primer went off and bullet lodged in the barrel. Fortunately, it was near the breach so the next bullet wouldn't chamber and I luckily avoided watched my barrel go boom. Does anyone have any advice on how to avoid this in the future? All I can think of (other than visually checking to ensure powder is there) is to weigh each bullet after loading. By the way, I use a Dillon 550B with Dillon dies. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Your brass weight unless all matched will vary in weight enought that weighting loaded will not be a good indicater.How you missed powder in one?You had to have missed a step someplace so first watch when you have any kind of problems and make sure that the powder is in the case and only one charge.second when you index visually check the case for powder before you index.Just glancing down will inable you see powder level.The 550 is a very fullproof piece of hardware but like anything else things will happen.Final answer is be carefull when you load and observe-observe-observe.


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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
Blunder,

I have a rule that when I made for myself when zipping along on my 550 that I'll share with you. It's very simple. You get a rhythm going on a good progressive press and anytime you break that rhythm, you are starting over. So, anytime you stop, back up and pull that case out of station number one to make sure you gave a good down stroke for priming, pull the pin out of station number two and establish the status of the case under the powder measure. That is the station that I check the most.

Frankly my biggest anxiety in reloading (.45 ACP) is exactly what you experienced, not overloading. I am so paranoid about it, I have gone through entire reloading sessions with the retainer pin (locator button) at station two removed (powder drop) and layed on the bench. My biggest complaint about the progressive presses is the lack of "feel" you get in a good single stage "O" press.
 
I'll start by saying I've never had a squib round, only a couple of factory rounds that didn't go bang at all. I would think, unless you were firing at a pretty fast rate, that you'd notice that the gun went "poof" instead of "BANG". As for preventing it at the reloading phase, I can't add anything that hasn't been said.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would think, unless you were firing at a pretty fast rate, that you'd notice that the gun went "poof" instead of "BANG".[/quote] That's just it, Johnwill. If you're going through a double tap drill at multiple targets, it could happen.
 
Please accept my apologies before I have to call you a stupid idiot.

Never buy reloads!

I only buy the best ammo. I constantly quality check and clean, lubricate, and clean my ammo. Last cleaning operation is very important.

I buy the best and keep them only 2 years at most. To let you know: My standard for ammo is zero mishaps in one hundred rounds. I allow for 1 mishap in more than one hundred rounds after the guns start overheating. PS. I also clean each gun after every 50 rounds for at least two hours. This means that in a 6 hour range shoot; I am actually shooting only 150 to 200 rounds per gun and spending the two hour interval cleaning, cleaning, cleaning the gun. And cleaning some more after I get home.

I have found FIOCCHI and WINCHESTER to be good. I have found PCI to have 1 defect in 100. I will not even waste my time with the horror stories on other ammo I quality check all the time.

Unless you reload your own and you better know what you are doing; it is a gamble. But of course I assume you are the kind of person who plays the stock market and the lottery - yes. I do not.
 
HID,

I think we're taking about reloading here, not buying reloads.

BTW, I don't under stand why any one would lubricate their ammo. Lubricating ammunition is dangerous. Lubricating and then cleaning, so that the effects of the lubrication are removed, is senseless. Ammunition should be clean and dry. I strongly suggest you study up on the firing cycle of brass cased ammo, with particular attention to the behavior of the case and primer during the pressure cycle.

As for apologizing before you call someone an idiot, don't do it and you won't have to.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited May 01, 2000).]
 
H.I.D.,

1st: blunder did not say he purchased reloads, just that they shot some. Many folks purchase and shoot commercial reloads with good results.

2nd: Please reconsider lubricating your ammo. If any of what ever you are using migrates into to the primer, you may have a dud. Also the brass need to "grip" the chamber wall when fired. Lubing you ammo will just attract dirt and may raise the back thrust presures.

Joe


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Go NRA
 
Sensop,

Not likely to happen. If you are double tapping, and the first round is a squib, the pistol won't cycle and the next round won't be chambered, and as such, won't fire.

However, if you are shooting fast, the response might be to perform a "tap, rack, bang" malfunction drill, and then you would be shooting into an obstructed barrel.

Anytime the gun goes "poof" instead of "bang," stop and inspect.
 
TaxPhd: When you're right, you're right. And you are absolutely right. I didn't think it through quite far enough. (The rest of the post stands :p :)) It hasn't happened to me, but I guess it could.

JoeHatley: Don't tell him the answer. This is too much fun, trying to figure what he will come out with next. I think we're being infiltrated by Darwin Award candidates.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited May 01, 2000).]
 
Tax PhD: Unless you're using a very heavy recoil spring, a 1911 will cycle from just a primer! In the stress of a match, or high-speed practice, it is not at all difficult to shoot a primer-only load and follow with a full-load.

I've seen it at two IPSC matches; I've had it happen to me in practice. A 200-grain lead SWC lodges about halfway up the barrel, from the primer. The next shot bulges the barrel, and it won't go back into battery, leading the shooter to say something like, "Duh?" With the IPSC load of 5.8 grains of 231, only the barrel is hurt by the second shot.

FWIW, Art
 
blunder;
Just be more careful.I think that is what everyone is trying to tell.Reread the posts and I think they will tell all.
HID;
I wonder if you are a shooter at all.Most of your posts tell me you are not.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hart Industries Defense:
Please accept my apologies before I have to call you a stupid idiot.

Never buy reloads!
[/quote]

Best to read the thread before tossing out the insults. :) He's shooting his own reloads, not buying them.
 
Art,

I have never seen that! I have never had a squib myself, but have seen a few at IPSC matches. None have cycled the slide. The fact that this can happen calls for even more vigilance. Both for shooters, as well as RO's in a match situation.

I'd like to load a few intentional squibs, both with no powder, as well as low powder charges, to see how the pistol functions (or doesn't). Can anyone see any potential danger from this activity (yes, the gun will be examined/cleared between each shot)?
 
I can say from experience that a primer only load didn't allow the bullet to go far enough in and still allow another to chamber but there was enough force to rack the slide. I'd guess a low powder charge is my worst fear in that the bullet could stop farther in and allow you to shoot again. In any event, thanks for the help and I'll be extra observant in the future.
 
I've done it, and never had the slide cycle on a poofter. But if Art says it can, I believe him.

I've seen one .45 barrel that this happened to, and it was indeed bulged at the middle, so that it no longer cycled (bushing caught on the bulge ring. All it took to fix was buying a new barrel (for a Stainless Gold Cup, darn it!).


--Sensop: Good show!


--Hart: Check your email.

L.P.
 
Hi, guys,

Contrary to what has been published in a well known book, the .45 auto is a recoil operated pistol. The bullet has to move to operate the gun. I think it may be possible that with very little resistance (lubricated lead bullet, maybe a little undersize) and a light spring, a primer could drive the bullet forward enough to at least partially operate the pistol.

The advice about stopping on any suspicious or "different" shot is good, but with people training to clear jams without thinking, it is probably wasted.

I agree with the advice on the Dillon. It is a good tool, but not foolproof if anything breaks the rhythm.

Jim
 
Unless you are using a compressed load a slight shake of each loaded round before being boxed will will give you some feed back
of course this works better for Large Rifle.
 
TaxPhd: If you try squib loads, use lead bullets. Just load one round in the pistol at a time, for starters.

To remove a lead bullet, I've had good success with a 6" extension for a 1/4"-drive ratchet, and a light ball-peen hammer. Put the female end of the extension against the nose of the bullet, and it's self-centering. A 3/8" hardwood dowel also works, if you're worried about hurting the bore.

To all: If the recoil spring is stiffer than standard, I'd not be a bit surprised if the pistol did not cycle with a primer-only load. And an FMJ bullet wouldn't go as far up the barrel as a lead bullet, I would think.

I have a Delta Elite; you might know just how stiff those springs are. I accidentally loaded some stuff which was near-squib. (Damfino what I did, other than goof.) They shoot just fine. But the pistol won't cycle. However, with just one spring, and it a lightweight one, it cycles just fine.

So if you're really, really careful, all this bad or weird garbage won't happen. Usually. We hope.

:), Art

[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited May 02, 2000).]
 
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