Help Identifying Possibly Live Shell

A

alanjaow

Inactive
I have an artillery(?) round, and would like to know what it is (name), if it's live, and how to disassemble it.
Projectile is ~350mm long, 45mm dia. at the top, tapers at the bottom (80mm dia.), and is ~20.2 lbs.
Shell is 600mm tall, 130mm dia. at the base, and 95mm at the top, but the rim is a little beat up (still 95mm diameter all around).
There's a hole in the bottom of the casing, so no primer.
The identifying marks are: NO. 500,000 | IB 70 | LOT 43-23137-15-1942-GATC-9(the rest is unreadable)
Here are some pictures:
Cap of projectile: http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1144.jpg
LOT number: http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1145.jpg http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1146.jpg
Projectile: http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1147.jpg
Shell and projectile: http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1148.jpg
Bottom of shell: http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q541/alanjaow/IMG_1149.jpg
Also, I got it at an antique store, but wasn't able to talk to the guy selling it.
 
The case appears to be mt. The hole in the bottom is were the primer was located.

I cannot speculate on the condition of the projectile. It appears that the fuze has been removed and the top is a plug of some kind. It is not a penetrator because those were solid.

When you thump the projectile does it sound hollow. If it was properly decommissioned there would be holes bored through the body of the projectile.

The case should be ok. I would be leery of the projectile. There a couple of Master EOD Techs on this sight. They could probably give a better discussion.
 
You really need to have a bomb tech check it out.

How do you know its inert??????????????

Even if it doen't go off, and it still has the explosive inside, it means lots of jail time.
 
You can see the remnants of yellow paint around the projectile. I believe that means it was a live round (I think blue was the training color?, been a long time).

The top of the projectile is designed to have a spanner or some type of wrench turn it, so as to set the timer on the fuse.

I would not own it myself, and after reading Kraigwy's other posts here on TFL, if he says you need to have it checked out, I would definitely have it checked out.

I would think that if you called the police or a military base (The military would probably tell you to contact your local police.) and explain what you have and how you got it, you would be fine.

But if that thing still has explosives in the projectile and something causes it to go off, you could be in a world of hurt.
 
I posted your question on the International Ammunition Assoc. Forum. This is one of the answers:

"This appears to be a US 90mm AA gun nose fuzed shell. The cap in the nose is the base of a fuze. The forward part is missing.
The set screw in the side has to be released to remove that part and that is likely why it is still in place. These freeze up after time.
Basic EOD rule #1
If you can not see into it , it is LIVE.
I would assume that this is a LIVE high explosive shell and treat it so. Contact the local bomb squad through the Police , Fire Dept. or EOD unit on the nearest military base.
Do not abuse or attempt to inert the projectile. These were designed to kill and they do.
If it is still live having it in hand is a FEDERAL FELONY and in many locations is a state FELONY as well.
Many folks end up throwing these things in lakes and rivers to avoid the problems. This is not a good idea.
In MANY cases the EOD unit or BOMB squad will just blow the thing up.
It is not wise to take chances with shells of this nature."

YMMV;)
 
Thanks everyone. I think before I do anything else, I'm going to go back to the place that sold it and ask if the person knows if it's been deactivated.
 
Also, I figured that it was either a reproduction or a round taken apart, rather than fired, considering the primer's gone, it's number 500,000 even, the rim of the shell is banged up, and the copper on the projectile is banged up.
 
Okay, I think I have a few things. First, the primer cavity actually appears to have been drilled out, to de-mil the casing; it also may have been a completely drilled through hole in the first place for a rimmed primer, as indicated by the recess to possibly accomodate a rim. Do you see any evidence at all that the casing itself had been fired?

The AA designation is no surprise to me, and that would be a timed fused device. Yes, the fuses are removeable, and in many cases, artillery like this was shipped and handled separately from the fuses, and only assembled upon issue to the unit, or actual useage.

If that was an AA round, it will have a charge of HE and (maybe) steel shrapnel. You said that it weighs 20 pounds. I have found information that the round weighs 24 pounds as issued. It is conceivable that this particular round is disarmed, but I am very concerned that the 4 pound discrepancy does not indicate that it is fully disarmed.



Some further research got me the information that the round carried a 2 pound charge of HE. If I could find an accurate listing of how much the casing itself would have weighed, it would help.

In any case, that plug up front is not an actual fuse. it's a storage plug, and would have been removed and the actual timer or proximity fuse would ahve been installed when deployed to the unit. Still nothing to help determine whether it is is still carrying the explosive charge.

It's not a dummy, though, I don't think that a dummy would have had a storage plug in. The dummy would likely have had a dummy fuse assembly installed.

Practice rounds were generally made of wood, anyway.
 
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I think it was a rimmed primer, it doesn't look like it was drilled through. I can't find any evidence that it was fired, no scorch marks, no stress anywhere except for the rim. And RamItOne, I wouldn't have tried to disassemble it until I find out for sure that it's inert.
 
Get it to a bomb tech, trust me, it'll save you a lot of heartache.

I was a bomb tech for the Anchorage Police Dept, I'm a cert. EOD Instructor.

I'll tell you how I would handle it if I found it in your home or a shop.

If I could get a robot to it, I'd remove it to a range and shoot it (with a 50 cal dearmor. It would break it open and if it went off, it would be in a safe spot.

If I couldn't move it, I'd evacuate around your home, sand bag it and shoot it as above.

No bomb tech with a brain is going to hand enter it. I'm old, the reason I am an old bomb tech is I wont take chances. I will not risk my hide or anyone else's to prevent property damange.

Either way, if it was found to contain explosives, it would have to be reported to ATF.

These things are not something to be played with.
 
Thanks everyone. I think before I do anything else, I'm going to go back to the place that sold it and ask if the person knows if it's been deactivated.
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That sounds like an absolutely stupid idea. Sorry, but you have already been told that it may be a live round and may pose a threat to you. What makes you think the antique dealer is a munitions expert and would actually know one way or the other. Funny how we see articles about supposedly deactivated rounds going off from time to time because something "thought" they were safe. Are you willing to trust your life and the lives of your loved ones to the word of a stranger who unloaded his problem on you?
 
alanjaow:


Lissten to Kraigwy: The less that than shell is handled the safer for everyone. No one can assure you that it's been deactivated.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery Sergeant
Cllifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
Alan - follow Kraig's advice on this one.

That shell might be safe, but since you don't know any thing about it, I wouldn't assume that it is. Assuming that is safe is a good way put yourself and others in harms way.
 
OK but what's a Talon???
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EOD Robot in use by US and friendly foreign first responders, and USMC, USAAF, USN, US Army :) Smaller than an Andros/F6A, meets a 150lb requirement for the Navy EOD tech division.

I was on the phone with some EOD techs at FT Wainwright just the other day, but I can't think of any Fire or Police Depts in WY that use them. Can't even recall talking to a US Army ORD CO in that state. Closest customer is...Grand Junction CO, I think

RE: the ordnance...I'm not a bomb tech. But that scares the crap out of me. In absence of conclusive proof it's inert, as far as I'm concerned it's live
 
The RMI

We called ours Captain Fang, in honor of the Patrol Captain who got the money to buy it.

I did the maintance on it. Had a ball playing with kids in the neighborhood when I brought it home for servicing.

RMI.jpg
 
But what if he's taken it apart, and found nothing inside?
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But what if he hasn't? What if he lies to you? What if he is mistaken and he has not taken yours apart? What happens if you injure or kill family or friends because you didn't take the proper precautions with an illegal explosive device that you purchased?

Your antique dealer isn't a munitions expert. You bought it without even being able to question him

If you want to buy a demilled AA shell, there are places to buy them. It would be very prudent to unload your potential explosive and eat whatever it cost you and chalk it up to experience.

So you think he might have taken it apart and looked inside? That would have to have happen a LONG time ago. The rust and patina on the fittings indicates that it has not been apart for a very long time as does the lack of new tool marks. Never mind that at least one of the screws is staked in place which indicates that it has not been undone since having been manufactured.

As has been pointed out, there is NO INDICATION that this projectile has been rendered inert. You appear to have a very live explosive in your possession, which as pointed out is illegal. You are endangering others. Call the bomb squad now.

And it's not being touched.
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What? It just lives on your couch? Somebody is going to touch it. Eventually somebody will likely drop it.
 
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