Guys that rifle doesn't look like a trainer to me. The receiver shape looks like a Type 99 Naval Special rifle which uses a cast iron receiver and a bolt that locks into a barrel extension. If you look at the photo of the breech area you can see the barrel extension sticking out of the receiver ring. Do some searching on google and gunboards.com for Naval Special Type 99's and you will find photos of rifles like yours. These are extremely rare and have very low production numbers. I recommend not attempting any cleaning or restoration until you have some more information on what you have.
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- Thread starter TheSaint
- Start date
tahunua001
New member
that's the closest thing I can find to it as well but the grips seem off.
Jim Watson
New member
Webley Mk II, III, IV, or V.
All very similar with progressive upgrades from about 1897 to 1916.
Maybe a tribal copy, right down to the British proof marks.
Not a Mk I or Mk VI which have distinctive butt shapes different from models in between.
All very similar with progressive upgrades from about 1897 to 1916.
Maybe a tribal copy, right down to the British proof marks.
Not a Mk I or Mk VI which have distinctive butt shapes different from models in between.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Given the amount of room between the recoil shield and the rear of the cylinder it looks as if that gun has been "cut" to allow its use with .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim ammo.
If it is an earlier gun, II through IV, it is NOT safe at all to fire with any form of smokless powder ammunition, especially not .45 ACP, which develops nearly double the chamber pressure of .455 cordite ammunition.
If it is an earlier gun, II through IV, it is NOT safe at all to fire with any form of smokless powder ammunition, especially not .45 ACP, which develops nearly double the chamber pressure of .455 cordite ammunition.
tahunua001
New member
that's not necessarily true. get some webley brass and load with black powder or light trail boss loads and you'll be able to shoot it just fine.
I believe tater 134 is correct, that the rifle is a Type 99 Special Naval model. I have seen only one of those and did not recall that they used a cast trigger guard. But everything is consistent with the pictures of genuine Special Naval models. So, far from being something of a common last ditch Type 99, it is in fact a quite rare rifle. I won't hazard a guess on value. though. (There should be an anchor somewhere on the receiver or barrel and a serial number on the receiver.)
From what I see, I don't think the Webley is a tribal copy, I think it is a Webley; the proofs are standard commercial proofs, and I don't see a broad arrow (more and better pictures, please!), leading me to think it is a commercial version of the government revolver. The workmanship and proof markings are far too precise and well done to be tribal work. The differences among the Mk III, IV and V are too minor to determine without a close examination. The grips were made from gutta percha and the appearance is normal for well worn ones.
Jim
From what I see, I don't think the Webley is a tribal copy, I think it is a Webley; the proofs are standard commercial proofs, and I don't see a broad arrow (more and better pictures, please!), leading me to think it is a commercial version of the government revolver. The workmanship and proof markings are far too precise and well done to be tribal work. The differences among the Mk III, IV and V are too minor to determine without a close examination. The grips were made from gutta percha and the appearance is normal for well worn ones.
Jim
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Again. I don't know much about these weapons. They were sitting in a tool shed for years. I'm putting a few coats of CLP on them and rubbing them down and lubricating the moving pieces.
I'm going to take some steel wool to them and have them checked out and cleaned up by a gunsmith.
I'm going to take some steel wool to them and have them checked out and cleaned up by a gunsmith.
The U.S. Army Model 1917 (both Colt and S&W revolvers shared that designation) was made to use .45 ACP. But after they were sold off as surplus, many were reworked by gunsmiths for other calibers, partly to eliminate the need for clips when ejecting fired cases. Many were converted to .45 Colt, but they were also converted to .357 Magnum, .38 Special, and other calibers as customers wanted. That one was converted to .357. It is hard to tell if the markings are from a factory or were applied by the gunsmith, or a combination, but the New Service is adequately strong for the .357 (factory level loads).
Jim
Jim
Gunplummer
New member
Tater 134 is correct. It is a Navel "Last Ditch" rifle. They are extremely rare. I had collected Arisakas for over 30 years and only ever saw one. They are also very dangerous. P.O. Ackley tested one and it came apart like a grenade. Even rough as it is, someone will want it.