Heckler & Koch VP9 Review

S&W is "erring" enough for multiple companies. It is embarrassing to be that company with its history and release such flawed product.
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You sure love to rag on S&W.... repeatedly... and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe you got a lemon M&P?

I've had 8 of them(just about every model) since 2009 and all have been perfectly reliable and just as accurate as I needed them to be.

I know a lot more people running the M&P hard in duty use that are happy with it than are unhappy with it. They must be doing something right....
 
They have 20/10 (or better) hindsight and aren't afraid to let you know that they are smarter than any firearms manufacturer.
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S&W isn't confused about why its M&P pistol is sub-par. They know what they're doing, and their hind$ight is full of brisk sales, regardless of quality.


HK has the opposite hindsight of quality vs. sales quantity, and hopefully they don't feel the need to learn a financial lesson from their "competition".
 
The M&P 9mm accuracy issue has gone on for 9 years of brisk sales. Are you saying they couldn't figure it out in that time?


I would rather assume they don't care then they are completely incompetent.
 
So, because Jerry has one accurate example, that means that the well known 9mm M&P full size accuracy issues don't exist? :confused:
 
RX-79G said:
So, because Jerry has one accurate example, that means that the well known 9mm M&P full size accuracy issues don't exist?
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So, because a handful of people on the internet, representing a tiny percentage of M&P sales, are loud about their accuracy issues, the vast majority of flawless M&P 9mm pistols don't exist?

I, for one, I have not heard any serious trends of complaints about M&P 9 accuracy. Just a small handful of repeated, scattered stories, most several years old at this point.

Lest I be accused of fanboying, I don't own a single Smith & Wesson product, nor does anyone in my family. My friend owns an M&P I have had significant time with, and it's a really solid, simple design. I'm not troubled by scattered quality complaints about a pistol that sells extremely well. If the issues were inherent to the design rather than scattered QC bloopers, we'd have seen widespread reports (See: the Remington R51).
 
So, because Jerry has one accurate example, that means that the well known 9mm M&P full size accuracy issues don't exist?
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I'm a confirmed M&P disliker (hate the trigger) but the few I've fired (all 9mm) have been fine in the accuracy department, once I figured out the trigger.

Just ones man's experience.
 
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/304960-m-p-9-full-size-accuracy-issues.html
My October-12 production M&P9FS had an accuracy issue right out of the box. Try 8" groups at 10 yards with three different brands of factory ammo and with several different handloads. And no, the problem was not me. I sent it back to Smith & Wesson and they agreed it had a bad barrel with questionable lock up. S&W replaced the barrel and now its accuracy is on a par with my Glocks. So yes, there is a bona fide accuracy issue with some M&P9FS pistols and it is related to barrels and lockup, and S&W has shipped them from the factory with this problem.
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http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=723988

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/free-range-time/29411-dissapointed-m-p-9mm.html

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...andguns-reliability-issues-returns-sig-sauer/

http://mp-pistol.com/mp-full-size-pistols/33233-new-m-p-pro-9mm-5-accuracy.html

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...m-but-worried-about-the-accuracy-issues/page3
What I am tired of, is folks who reject the accuracy problems I have actually experienced with a sample of over 10 M&P 9 pistols, without providing proof that they have a SINGLE M&P that will meet that accuracy standard.
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See if you can find nearly as many posted threads about HK, Glock or Walther accuracy issues in 2 minutes.
 
Hijacked? I say the HK is not going to have the problems of some of its competition, the fanboys weigh in to say that nothing could possibly be wrong with their pet guns, and now I'm the "hater" when I demonstrate the difference?
 
RX-79G said:
Hijacked? I say the HK is not going to have the problems of some of its competition, the fanboys weigh in to say that nothing could possibly be wrong with their pet guns, and now I'm the "hater" when I demonstrate the difference?
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You were bashing S&W before people started defending it. You also made comments about Glock but no one responded, though I imagine if they had we would be in the same boat but with a different name. I don't even own S&W pistols anymore but I think you're being a bit ridiculous.

I could easily find a dozen threads online of people having issues with the ejection patterns of HK P30s or false reset issues with the HK45 series. I imagine you would just dismiss those.

Lesson here folks is don't feed the trolls.
 
Duder,

Go to pistol-forum. This stuff is all just accepted fact over on a forum of hard core shooters. TFL is the land of unrealistic "hater" labeling, where every bad Taurus is a fluke and every gun is "accurate enough".
 
Guys, I appreciate what plouffedaddy does; not only are his reviews good but I also appreciate that he posts reviews here on TFL that we can understand without being required to watch his YouTube videos. So it wouldn't be fair if we got his thread closed because of too much off-topic arguing.
 
This stuff is all just accepted fact over on a forum of hard core shooters.
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I guess we're just not "hard core" enough. I have a combined 5000 rds or so through the M&Ps I owned, not a lot I know but not chump change either.

Are there M&Ps that have problems? Absolutely. More so than HK pistols with problems? Frankly I'd say yes, in just my own sample. I do carry HK for a reason. Do I think those problems make the whole model line inaccurate and liable to break at any point? Frankly no.

The internet has been a big plus and a big negative for the shooting sports. The negative I see is that the majority of people who go online to talk about a specific pistol often do so because of a negative experience. It's human nature. These complaints come to be accepted as fact and then an entire model becomes terrible. There are legitimate complaints about M&P pistols. But calling the guns knowingly all bad or S&W entirely incompetent is just hyperbole. While I expect hyperbole on the internet, I always challenge it when I see it.

Like I said, google "HK P30 ejection problems" or "HK45 false reset". You'll find a number of threads, even on the HKpro forums themselves. Does this mean every P30 has ejection problems or every HK45 has ejection issues? Of course not. But I have had two P30s, one which did have ejection problems and a USP 45 Compact that had the false trigger reset while my HK45 Compact does not. We just finished a 10 page long thread on HKpro where a big member (the guy arranges group buys from HK USA that is how much of a fan he is) had to send his HK45 in because the sear spring and sear needed replacing after only 1400 rds. Mechanical stuff breaks, some more than others I agree, but no one is 100%.
 
I get the fact that someone may not like a certain brand for what ever reason new or old. However at some point it does nothing to promote your view and sidetracks the thread. Can we not stray so far? It is taking to much away from the subject line.

Maybe we need a brand complaint section so people can vent and leave those discussions there? :D
 
Back to the HK VP9!
Magnut wrote:
oh look....another striker fired polymer framed pistol!
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I'm with ya for the most part. The one good thing is it adds another option for what I assume will be a quality model.

One thing to note is that since this is a very similar gun to the Walther PPQ M1. The PPQ's sales suffered some because of the magazine paddle release and poor marketing. While, I think it a superior design to the normal push button design, I know I'm in a small minority here in the US. Sales of the PPQ took off with the release of the M2 (push button) model. It could be the VP9 could suffer the same fate as the PPQ M1 even though there's a limited rerun on M1's for the US. It may be fine for the HK fan boys, but I doubt the cocking/slide wings/ears will be enough to sway someone to dump their Glocks, M&P's, or XD/M's if they did not for the PPQ M1.


Plouffedaddy, I don't recall seeing a PPQ review by you, at least on youtube. If you have not done one and can't compare the trigger of the VP9 to the PPQ. How does the triggers of the VP9 and Steyr L9-A1 compare. Most don't know that the Steyr trigger is as good as the PPQ's overall.
 
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Worc wrote:
Plouffedaddy, I don't recall seeing a PPQ review by you, at least on youtube. If you have not done one and can't compare the trigger of the VP9 to the PPQ. How does the triggers of the VP9 and Steyr L9-A1 compare. Most don't know that the Steyr trigger is as good as the PPQ's overall.
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I own both, PPQ & Steyr L9-A1 and maybe the VP9/40 will be my first HK pistol ever, so for sure I'd like to hear the Plouffedaddy's opinion about it. Thanks in advance.
 
This has been an interesting thread. As per this being a striker-fired version of the P30 and the marketing questions, why didn't they just figure out how to give the P30 a better trigger? The P30 and P30L are spectacular guns except for that one glaring flaw. This flaw is widely known and seems to be the overwhelming consensus. (How many discussions or reviews can you find that don't mention it? It's already come up in this thread!) How hard would it have been to invest a little of that time, talent, and treasure into fixing it?

Yes, I know striker guns are popular. Yes, I know they want a share of that market. As others have pointed out, it's a crowded market that already has quality and competition. DA/SA guns are a bit more scarce. Why not corner the relevant price spectrum of that market?
 
Cosmodragoon said:
Why not corner the relevant price spectrum of that market?
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My guess is that's because the striker market is bigger. They already have part of the DA/SA market. Now they're going for a part of the larger striker market, and at competitive prices to boot.
 
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