Heavy Barrel Rimfires

T

trg42wraglefragle

New member
Hi.

I was dead keen on getting a CZ 452 Lux in 22lr, because I liked the idea of having open sights.
But after some thought I realized I doubt I'd use them, and might be better off with the Varmint version, as I plan to attempt long range 200-300yard shooting.

Do you think a heavy barrel in rimfire rifles makes much of a difference?
Or would the longer barrel length be better as I'd gain higher velocities?
 
Unless you're talking about a truly thin pencil type bbl, nothing but weight is gained by heavy bbl's. The added weight would help to keep your hold steady. And, I don't think anything is gained with bbl length beyond 20" or 22" with most production type ammo except sight radius.

If you look at .22lr rifles used for competition- you don't see many Feinwerkbau's, Walther's, or any others with what we typically consider varmint weight bbls. Long- yes, but great in circumfrence- not so much so. Keep looking at the CZ line- I don't think it would be unreasonable to find one with both sights and scope mounting capabilities.

And your range expectations- 200-300yds would be quite the undertaking for such a ctg. I think I would be inclined to think hard about peep and globe sights at 100yds and work up slowly from there to see how things progress.
 
Thanks for the reply.
What you said about barrels is what I was thinking, I know its a different ball game with center fires though,

Oh and for the long range shooting i'm going to use a scope lol.
 
I believe the .22 lr has max velocity at about 12" of barrel and anything after that actually starts to slow it down. The heavier barrel helps decrease muzzle flip if you are engaging several targets at once, like on a dueling tree.
 
10-96 wrote:
And your range expectations- 200-300yds would be quite the undertaking for such a ctg.
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t42,

I'm somewhat confused about your undertaking - 22LR Rifles are best suited for precision target shooting at 50 yds, not 200-300 yds. Yeah, it can be done but both trajectory and wind drift will be very large.

Maybe you could help us understand more about what you plan to shoot at those distances with a 22LR?
 
200-300 yard shooting with a .22 rimfire introduces the same challenges of 600-1000 yard shooting with a centerfire round, without the cost or needing a 1000 yard range.
That's reason enough to me.
 
Max. Velocity

I believe the .22 lr has max velocity at about 12" of barrel and anything after that actually starts to slow it down. The heavier barrel helps decrease muzzle flip if you are engaging several targets at once, like on a dueling tree. __________________
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With all due respect, this is not so. According to the NRA Fact Book. The optimum, length providing max velocity, if a max of 20" or slightly less. The selection of longer barrels, is usually due to reasons other than velocity. Reference 3Rd. edition, page-200.

Be Safe
 
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Ive owned several .22lr rifles, including a cz 452 Varmint with heavy barrel. My buddy has a cz 452 american and he actually had tighter groups with his rifle than Ive had with mine. So i dont think that the heavy barrel gives you any advantage in accuracy.
 
WeedWacker said:
I believe the .22 lr has max velocity at about 12" of barrel and anything after that actually starts to slow it down.
Click to expand...

Pahoo said:
Will all due respect, this is not so. According to the NRA Fact Book. The optimum, length providing max velocity, if a max of 20" or slightly less. The selection of longer barrels, is usually due to reasons other than velocity. Reference 3Rd. edition, page-200.
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My chronograph indicates that the 24 inch barrel of my 1885 Winchester only adds about 69 fps to the velocity obtained shooting the same ammo (CCI standard velocity target) in a S&W model 41 semi-auto pistol with a 7 inch barrel. So, it is safe to say that any barrel beyond a short carbine length pretty much just guides the bullet to the target. High velocity and max velocity lr ammo most likely peaks with different barrel lengths than standard velocity. Aguilla Super Colibri ammo actually shot slightly faster out of the pistol than it did out of the rifle.
Even if the NRA Fact Book is correct, the difference between a 20 inch barrel and a 16 inch barrel is probably not significant, i.e. there's probably more shot to shot velocity variation than there is difference between a 16 and 20 inch barrel.
 
Its a great gun no doubt and a very accurate little cal. Problem is, it not a 300 yard gun. It wasnt ever meant to be, they are great at 50-75 yards and can shoot at 100 but at 300 the drop is un real and wind drift at 5mph may be several feet.
 
"So, it is safe to say that any barrel beyond a short carbine length pretty much just guides the bullet to the target."

A longer barrel just guides the bullet? A longer barrel ensures that a standard velocity round stays subsonic. Accuracy usually goes to pot when a rimfire bullet exceeds the speed of sound. Check the muzzle velocity of target rounds to see for yourself. A longer barrel can slow a slightly hot round.
 
"So, it is safe to say that any barrel beyond a short carbine length pretty much just guides the bullet to the target."

A longer barrel just guides the bullet? A longer barrel ensures that a standard velocity round stays subsonic. Accuracy usually goes to pot when a rimfire bullet exceeds the speed of sound. Check the muzzle velocity of target rounds to see for yourself. A longer barrel can slow a slightly hot round.
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The velocity I measured out of the 24 inch barrel was only about 15-20 fps slower than the published velocity taking into account that my chronograph was about 25 ft away from the muzzle.
Some folks claim that a long barrel evens out the velocity variations but the velocity variations out of the 7 inch barrel were about the same as out of the rifle barrel.
If you want to make sure the bullet stays subsonic, why not a pistol barrel with a bloop tube extension on the end to make it a legal rifle?


At 200 yards, the muzzle elevation in moa and the wind drift in moa is similar to a .308 at 1000 yards. This should make a .22 at 200 to 250 yards good training for 1000 yard centerfire target shooting when shot at 1/5 or 1/4 scale targets.
 
You guys got it spot on.
Im keen on long range shooting but don't have the money or the places to shoot at 600-1000 yards, so I reakoned i'd do long range with a 22, and can learn about reading wind and what not for a much lower price.
 
22lr starts to decelerate after 16 to 20 inches of barrel length. My chronograph readings show constant velocity loss from 18.5 inch 10/22 20 inch 77/22 and 22 inch tbolt. Longer barrel is only better for sight radius in this case.

The tbolt has the heavy barrel and is the most accurate. I think the added weight has more to do with it than the actual thickness of the barrel.
 
heavier, thicker barrels do not change temperature as quickly. which may be a consideration for the op when shooting .22lr at 250 yards. further, "bull" barrels (the kind that do not taper) have not been machined further than having the barrel itself formed, which some say aids accuracy (i have no opinion here, due to a thorough lack of knowledge of and experience with precision shooting). another point is that bull barrels are stiffer and therefore less sensitive to being pressured on different points (i.e. changing rest positions). one final consideration is that the barrel harmonics are consistent over the length of a bull barrel, and inconsistent along the length of a tapered barrel.

but that is all gossip and hearsay anyway.
 
One thing not mentioned by anyone yet is whether or not the heavy barrelled rifle will have a tighter chamber? Some rifles have different chambers that are slightly tighter than standard barrels. My Ruger's have Bentz(spelling?) match chambers which require the use of standard velocity ammo only as per instructions......never tried anything else in them so far.
 
Hello, trg42wraglefragle. You are a man after my own heart! I too find long range target shooting facinating..However, due to time & work constraints, I cannot shoot 600 to 1000yd. matches. I have gotten serious about finally teaching myself prone shooting. I have downloaded reduced targets for 100yds. smallbore shooting (Mini-Palma).
I have always been intrigued by the long-range matches of the 1870's &
80's held at Creedmoor, Wimbledon, and Bisley. I have made up precisely scaled copies of the original targets used at 1000yds. for shooting at 100yds.
Last year, I was fortunate enough to purchase an original 1930's era, BSA 12/15 martini-action prone rifle. This rifle has been customized & re-barreled by
H.M. Pope. 30" long, 1" at muzzle brl., with scope blks. BSA adj. Appa. rear & Watson globe front. Stocked in fancy English walnut. Took out for first time, shooting off bench at 50yds. Using Lyman Jr. TargetSpot 10X, Lapua X-Act went into .350". Eley std. went into 3/8". & Wolfe target went into 1/2".
Tried Prone for first time in years & man this gun is heavy! I have my work cut out.
 
.22 long range

Bought a Savage MkII TR .22 this spring as long range practice rifle. Screwed a fixed 10x Bushnell (my first one in years, crossed fingers) on it and zeroed it at 100. Currently shooting at a125 yds on a scaled down F-class target, prone w/ bipod and when the winds blowing it is a challenge.

I have read that 200 yard .22 shooting is akin to 1000 yd .30 cal shooting, but I have not gone to 200 yet w/ the MkII. Ammo is the big thing. I have not found any Wally World ammo that will stay sub MOA at 100.

CCI seems to be the best performer in my rifle at near average cost.
 
trg42 said:
You guys got it spot on.
Im keen on long range shooting but don't have the money or the places to shoot at 600-1000 yards, so I reakoned i'd do long range with a 22, and can learn about reading wind and what not for a much lower price.
Click to expand...

It certainly pulls one out of the frame of mind that expects a more or less linear path.

At 200m, the drop seems well over five feet. I used to shoot beyond that now and then, and the trajectories are artillery like.
 
Hey, I don't know what you guys are talking about... I shoot 200 yards with my 115 year old Winchester all the time! Of course I can step out for a Starbucks before the bullet gets there!

All kidding aside. The CZ guns, heavy or "regular" barrel will be great for 22 long rifle ranges. It is more a function of carrying the thing around or shooting from the bench most of the time.

I thought (and I'm sure someone will jump on me like a ton of bricks if I'm wrong) that the open sight model CZ was drilled and tapped for a scope anyway. I could be wrong.

But, shooting a 22 anytime (even at extended ranges) is going to be good practice and fun too boot.
 
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