Heavy 9mm Defensive Rnds?

E

Eric Larsen

New member
I am curious to what luck/results people have had with 147 gr. Defensive loads for a 9mm. Do they make a good rnd in +P?

I have shot 147 gr Talons and was not impressed at all...dont agree with a short/steep feed ramp...even throated and polished.
I had 2-3 out of 150 that didnt want to feed.

Is this a common prob. with the bigger and heavier bullets?
I would like a licketysplit fast and heavy bullet for my 9mm!

Shoot well

And Yes I know...here come the 40 and 45 comments.. DONT BOTHER! I have a 40 and a .357...I am asking about a 9mm
 
Very early 147gr JHPs had a slight tendency to induce feeding problems due to the lower slide momentum they imparted. I seriously doubt this would be a real concern with the later generation of subsonics.

Cor-bon and Georgia Arms load a 147gr 9x19 to +P velocities (usually over 1000 FPS for this particular weight) and claim to offer reliable expansion while managing to dump more energy than typical 147grs ("typical" would be around 330 FPE).

I understand the latest generation of 147gr loads offer less "dangerous" penetration by offering reliable expansion... but in that case, what's the point?

I was under the impression that this "dangerously" deep penetration was the 147-grainers key attraction for those who felt deeper penetration was a bullet's primary function!

So what you basically end up with is a load that offers roughly the same penetration as the 115gr/124gr loads, but with less deliverable energies?
(Jump up and sit down, watch out now! :rolleyes: )


No thanks, I think I'll just stick with the 115gr/124gr variety for defense.

If your pistol likes nothing but 147gr JHPs, then that's what you use.
 
The Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept. uses the 147 grain Winchester sxt...they find it penetrates deeper than the 115 and expands in the normal loading....but if you have feed problems, there are plenty of other choices....
 
I was toying with the idea of heavier Defensive loads..I carry 124 Golds or Hydra's. But if they make a heavier bullet that goes as fast ...why not. Theorically more energy...even with slightly less penetration...was is the average thickness of an average BG anyway? Figure most critical organs are only 8-12 " maximum into a person...why the hell do you need 18" of penetration?
Just a thought...who know...The BG I might have the first time could be a drug crazed sumo wrestler sundowner. (Where the hell did I put that Bazooka?) You never know!

The Talons my gun didnt like were the first Generation..real talons. The front of the bullet was noticeably bigger than my Gold Dots which already are quite large. I believe thats why they
didnt like the short steep feed ramp...thanks for the responses.
Shoot well
 
115-124gr +P Cor-Bon or Gold Dots work fine for me.. Don't need anything heavier for a 9mm personal defense round IMO.

Rick
 
When considering penetration depths and police department decisions, please remember that police shootings may require the bullet to penetrate glass, plastic, vinyl, sheet rock, wood, etc. before hitting soft tissue. Police requirements and civilian requirments are two very different things.
 
I like the ability to shoot through my own door if need be....
Click to expand...

I don't think that shooting at a piece of metal that's right next to you is such a good idea.

Anyway, IMO, 115 is best in standard 9mm. +p is a tossup between 115 and 124. For +P+, 124 is the way to go. Gotta keep those velocities up where you get reliable expansion.

Now, if you had a silencer on that pistol, you might have a good reason to carry 147 grain in it. Otherwise stay in the 100-130 grain range.
 
The police may have a use for a 147 but I do not have any use for the load. The lighter loads in HP where designed to expand and not drill as a 9mm will and has a bad reputation for. The .357 is well know as a great stopper due to a lighter HP and lots of MV. That is what I want out of my 9s, speed and expantion. If I had plans of ever expecting to shoot tru a car a spare mag of german issue FMJ in the spare mag would be better than the 147 or better yet leave the 9 home and pack the .41 with the Federal 210 1500fps loads. I figure if I need the 9 its going to be a nasty at short range with a +P 115 HP.
 
penetration depth

Something else to consider is that the gelatin penetration depth is not necessarily what it will do in a BG. Skin itself is harder to overcome than most soft tissue. Bone is substantially harder.

The more I read about actual shootings of both game and men and actual penetration in flesh, the more I lean to the heavier bullets. Consider that .45 ball in the majority of cases does not exit a man's torso. In gelatin it is overpenetrative. It makes you wonder why we even consider the gelatin results.
 
Ballistic Gelatin is "supposedly" the closest thing to the real thing.
Plus, If you ever have some really nasty and hostile Ballistic Gelatin after you or your family, you know EXACTLY what to shoot it with! :D:
 
FWIW I like 124gr. loads best in 9mm. I can`t see the point in trying to make it a smaller .40 S&W by using heavier than normal bullets. Good 124gr. loads penetrate plenty deep. As for penetration through car doors as mentioned above it doesn`t matter one bit what load or even caliber you use, all that matters is where you hit the door and at what angle. Auto sheetmetal is very thin,you can pretty easily drive a knife through it by hand, any caliber or load used for CCW will go right through it. However the window mechanism,glass and side door beams are another story. Hit the window regulator channels and I don`t care it it`s a .454 Casull,by the time it makes it through that and the door skin it`ll be beat to heck and going who knows where. If you hit the door beam it probably won`t exit the door at all. With a .45ACP/9mm/.40 chances are it won`t even get to the door skin if you hit that stuff. Morale of the story,use sensible ammo,practice,keep a cool head and don`t try and shoot through your own door. ;) Marcus
 
Rail Gun I have a small amout of german 9mm left from many years ago. and for the penetration I can say for sure a 115gr Hornady XTP will penetrate a elks head and finaly lodge in the neck. That is a lot tougher target than a person with a heavy leather jacket on.
 
Many 9mm 147gr JHPs demonstrate penetration performance that's identical to .45 ACP 230gr JHPs -- approximately 13-14 inches. Nobody seems to complain that the .45 ACP 230gr Federal HydraShok penetrates too deeply.
 
Shawn Dodson,

Good point but note that 9x19 147 gr bullets make a smaller hole than 45 ACP are a lot less powerful than 45 ACP (also less powerful than 124 gr or 115 gr 9x19 bullets).

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
 
9mm

9x19mm:

115gr +p+ Federal 9BPLE at 1,300fps

124gr +p ProLoad Tactical Gold Dot at 1,200fps

124gr +p Remington Golden Saber at 1,180fps

147gr Remington Golden Saber at 990fps
 
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