HCI Rates your state gun control

Sure Dennis, go ahead and rub my nose in it! :D

Ok, so a D+ ain't perfect. But, it's a hell of a long way from an A. Give us some time, we're workin' on it!
 
I don't mean to nipik but ... whatever happened to our Nation's capital???

Don't they have a gun law or two??

Any guesses as to the stats on the death rate per 100,000?
 
you are not suggesting that HCI left their home town off the report card on purpose are you?

dZ
 
Dang, I'm depressed. My state only got a "D+". I was hoping for an "F". Well, better luck next year.

Hey, is it possible to get an HCI grade of "x", "y" or "z"? I mean, if we are gonna go, then let's go big. Let's not pussyfoot around with this issue. :)

I WANT MY "Z" HCI GRADE AND I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE! :)
 
I still wonder how many people had to reach out of the grave to vote no on Prop. B to give Missouri is C+. Maybe after we change governors we can pass the CCW law and get that coveted F
 
Okay, that's their "feelgood" rating system. Now, has anybody got the stats so we can really compare them? I'd like to see a chart like this (columns are separated by slashes):

State/HCI Grade/Gun Deaths/Population/Homicides/Homicide Rate/"Safety" Grade

The safety grade would be based on the actual homicide rate, not some "feelgood" measure, like HCI used. I was thinking about grading on a curve -
0-10th percentile - A
11-30th percentile - B
31-80th percentile - C
80-90th percentile - D
Whatever's left - F

I'd really like to see what the stats show about their ratings. And, of course, I'd include DC (I'd have to guess at their rating, I suppose - or I could ask them).

Anybody got the stats? Or know where I can get them? I've got a spreadsheet!
 
From another vantage point ... no state got an A+ ... any ideas as to what a state has to do to get an A+? Complete ban? Confiscations?
 
TR,
I could only guess it would mean total prohibition of anything that "hurls" a projectile and "Waco-ing" dissenters.

Hmm. That would make me "hurl"! ;)
 
You get an A+ for rounding up gun owners and shipping them off to concentration camps. That qualifies as extra credit work, you see.

I'm ashamed to say Michigan got a C-; They passed the blasted CCW law in both houses, and then backtracked! (Gaining the emnity of gun controlers for passing it in the first place, and the emnity of gun owners for killing it. Nothing like making BOTH sides mad at you!)
 
Danger Dave-

I wish I could help you get your data. I am sure that someone here can. It is obvious that their grades are counter-indicative of what they claim to be trying to acheive (social safety).

I believe that it is very important that someone put together the data and make a spreadsheet that points out that all the States they gave good grades to have horrible crime rates etc, and that the poorly graded States are very safe places to live.

Hopefully someone can tell you where to find your data. I would like a copy of the spreadsheet. I will send it to some elected officials.

I think that HCI has really set themselves up on this one for a fall, and that with a little logic and data, we can take this grading policy of theirs and shove it back in their ****ing face.



[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited September 05, 1999).]
 
The Justice (sic) dept has the crime stats, the Commerce Dept I believe puts out the statistical abstract of teh U.S. and the city/county data book (population by SMSA). they may be on line now. I wish I had the time to do the crunching - M2

PS Just found out the Statistical Abstract is avaiolable from Amazon.com for $35 in paperback, $50 in CD/ROM

[This message has been edited by Mike in VA (edited September 06, 1999).]
 
danger dave,
dont forget the ages, and wether it was suicide, or a leo shooting or homeowner kill bg, or just plain criminal for categories....how bout one for repeat offender, or mind altering drugs or violent criminal...you get the drift....good idea, I bet our govt somewhere has this info, at least most of it.....fubsy.

hey call the nra, if they dont have it(and I sure hope they do), they at least ought to be able to tell ya who does.....fubsy,,,,I wanna a copy too......Im in the middle of packing for my move, but if I can help round up some of it,,,email me....fubsy.

[This message has been edited by fubsy (edited September 05, 1999).]
 
Ok folks, I've loaded the population statistics into a spreadsheet, and HCI's numbers for Children killed by firearms for each state and the resulting information is astounding.

HCI's grades appear to be completely random, based on some strange formula that only they know and understand. There *is* however a strong correlation of "good grades" to a lower rate of deaths per 1000, however, this correlation is not strong enough to say that they are basing thier grades only on the results.

The other interesting thing is that HCI grades on a curve!

With 4 grades of A-, 7 of B-, B, or B+, 13 of C-, C, or C+, 21 of D-, D, or D+ and 5 of F, it shows a curve, whieghted to the bottom, but a curve non-the-less.

There are some holes in thier grading system which point out thier ultimate goal. Complete disarmament. Take a look:

Hawaii has a rate of .0120 deaths per 1000 and receives a grade of A-, while Maine having a rate of .0153 per 1000 receives a grade of F. Virtually identical rates (results) yet a vastly different grade. Looking further we can see the agenda revealed. Hawaii has no carry law, Maine does; Hawaii has an "access prevention" law (whatever that means) and Maine does not.

Ok, you argue, but it does fit, Maines rate is greater than Hawaii's (yeah, right, by .0033 per 1000), but I'll bite, lets look.

Here we have Maryland, another A- state. It's rate is .0768 per thousand. Close to 6 times the rate of Hawaii. So why did Maryland get an A- while Maine didn't? Maryland has an "access prevention" law and apparently a very restrictive carry law.

If HCI's goal was indeed to protect the children, then the grades would reflect the reality of the results. Some states with pro-gun laws *are* indeed way up there in rate/1000 deaths, but then, others are very low. My guess is that it comes down to a matter of exposure and education. Then again there are those states with truly restrictive laws that have low rates, but then they have their own counterparts as well.

In addition, and not to be cold about it, but if this were anything other than children, these rates would be considered to be statistically zero. Of course to the parent that has lost a child due to an incident involving a firearm, this is of little consolation, and anyone in that situation has my deepest sympathy. But as we all know, to blame the firearm (or it's manufacturer) for the deed will create far more problems than it will solve.

Basically, I have determined statistically that all the legislation is actually having no effect on the safety of our kids. All it's doing is beginning to disarm us.

I would like to get some further statistics about automobile fatality rates among the 0-19 year old age groups. My suspicions are that this rate is larger by at least a factor of ten and is an issue that should be addressed rather than "gun violence"

The other issue I would like to address is the one of how many lives are saved because of a gun as opposed to these deaths. Again, I have seen figures somewhere that indicate that the number saved is far larger than the number lost. Granted, to lose one child to any form of death is sad at best, devastating at worst, but we as a society must weigh the costs and determine it the price HCI wants us to pay worth losing those additional childrens lives?

As soon as I get this into a presentable form, I'll post it somewhere on the net for all to download.
 
Thanks TR!!!!

Do you have anyplace you can post that spreadsheet or could you email it to me? Please?

Did you include suicides in your stats?

I thought the "grade" system would be pretty arbitrary. The United States just varies way to much from state to state - some states are highly urbanized with >1/2 the population living in cities of 1,000,000 or more, and some are still largely rural. They probably took a list of states and their laws and just organized them until a comittee agreed on the ordering. I noticed that the more recently the law was passed, the more it counted for the HCI grade. That told me there was nothing scientific about their system - it was based on trends more than anything.

BTW, what are the 5 safest & the 5 most dangerous states to live in?
 
Well, the sreadsheets at the office, and I'm still at home right now, but I will be in the office tomorrow and will put it up on a link to a page on my website.

It isn't anything really fancy or anything, but it will allow you to sort the columns anyway you want to and figure out the information you want.

I'll post a note here after I get it put up on the site.
 
Got a link to where I can find the CDC cause of death data?

I'll look for it myself, but a link would speed things along :)

Thanks
 
Thanks DZ, I will try to put this into the spreadsheet this evening in some sort of understandable form. After that, I'll put it up on my web page for all to d/l... and let everyone know here.
 
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