Having Major Issues Properly Seating .223 Primers in Brass

A

adn258

New member
So I'm newer to reloading, and I've been having issues with high primers in my .223 reloads from factory brass. This is happening with some brands of brass more than others, like Lake City seems to be one of the most difficult to deal with.

It got so bad that recently I had a slam fire from a primer that was likely too high. I have a turret T-7 from Redding press, a Dillon super swager tool to deswage primer pockets for military crimps that I use and a Frankford Arsenal hand priming tool.

The hand priming tool does seem to help, but I'm still getting issues. I'm using 450 and 400 CCI primers the 450 are magnum. The issue occurs with both primers. I'm tired of wasting good 75gr BTHP bullets from Hornady in my precision heavy 24 inch barrel AR, only to have them not perform as well as they could from crappy seated primers.

I'm starting to think that maybe reloading factory fired .223 brass is a waste of time? For precision .223 you'd be better off buying factory new brass like Starline. I've also read that Starline factory new brass has easy to reload primer pockets that seat primers well etc.

Any tips or tricks would be lovely? Here are some pictures I took, maybe you can tell me if these look properly seated? The Hornady brass appears to have a well/properly seated primer but the rest do NOT (Hornady is the last photo). The Hornady after reaming and deswage session seems to seat primers well. Tips, tricks, and any help is appreciated?

https://ibb.co/Wymz9MG
https://ibb.co/9Gd92JB
https://ibb.co/SdrdwQB
 
Never had problems with lake city. Remove the crimp then seat. Just gotta make sure the primer bottoms out. Some cases require more force than others. You just kinda have to learn the feel for it. But snug primer pockets last longer.
 
Is it possible that you have not yet learned about "Crimped Primers" ?
Military spec ammo,such as Lake City, stakes a crimp around the primer,locking it in place.
The result of that crimp makes it difficult to impossible to properly seat primers when reloading.
Thats one of the lessons that will be covered if you read the "how to" text in most reloading manuals.

There are tools available to remove the crimp and solve your problem.
Some cut or ream the crimp out of the primer pocket.

Others force a forming tool,or "swage" into the pocket,reforming the brass.

Both can do the job .

For myself,I prefer the swage. The cutting tools are cheaper,generally. IMO,they can cut into the sides of the primer pocket. This can cause gas leakage.

I'm sure others are offered,but one lower cost swage setup is the RCBS. If you will be doing the volume to justify it,the Dillon pocket swage tool is very good.
 
Thanks for the help guys. HiBC as I said I have a deswage tool from Dillon. I'm well aware. Shadow9mm always great to hear from you. Judging by my photos which I get aren't like seeing it in person, but do the primers seem seated enough?
 
As near as I can tell they look seated ok. I'm guessing it's an optical illusion due to swaging the crimp out there the primer looks higher. Take a piece of paper, a razor blade, a caliper, something flat snd straight, and scrape it along the brass. As long as the primer is flush or below the base of the case you should be ok.

Have you pulled your bolt and checked your firing pin lately? If that gets gunked up it can cause slamfires sometimes. Could be excessive firing pin protrusion as well.

Any issues with factory ammo?

Only other thing I can think of is you adjusted the swager too far in and your crushing the primer pocket. Pushing metal down and causing a bulge in the base of the pocket.
 
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adn258 said:
Thanks for the help guys. HiBC as I said I have a deswage tool from Dillon. I'm well aware. Shadow9mm always great to hear from you. Judging by my photos which I get aren't like seeing it in person, but do the primers seem seated enough?
Click to expand...
Hard to tell from your pics. Do you have your Dillon swage tool adjusted properly? I'm guessing you haven't fully removed the crimp. I load LC all the time on my Dillon 550 with no problems. Most of my primer pockets have been swaged using the Dillon tool.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk
 
An easy way to tell if the primers are seated flush or more/deeper is to use the EDGE of a metal ruler, and if you can see a bit of daylight between the rulers edge and the primer, good to go. Setting the primed brass on a hard flat/smooth surface will also indicate flush or better as the brass will "wobble" when the primer is not fully seated/flush. I use the "ol index finger" on every piece of brass I prime as a test. If it doesn't feel right, then I grab the metal ruler or set the brass on a flat surface. I do prime on the LEE press now due to old hands.

You may need to adjust the Dillion swage die a bit to push more of the crimp ring out. Here is a tool that helps to see if the crimp has been removed/moved enough to allow smooth primer seating.

https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

Well worth the money IMO. You can use a handheld PP cutter to finish off those cases that are being stubborn about taking the primer.
 
Thanks for the help everyone. Looks like a great guage tool for primer pockets. There is a tiny bit of wobble on some of these cases not bad but I can tell these aren't 100% seating all the way unfortunately.
 
Personally, I would take ones that are wobbly and see if I could get it to seat. Obviously pointing away from your face. Eyes, ears, gloves and no other primer in the tool or area. Worst case it goes off. Best case it seats. But that should at least tell you if they will seat or not or of it just needs a touch more pressure.
 
jpx2rk said:
An easy way to tell if the primers are seated flush or more/deeper is to use the EDGE of a metal ruler, and if you can see a bit of daylight between the rulers edge and the primer, good to go. Setting the primed brass on a hard flat/smooth surface will also indicate flush or better as the brass will "wobble" when the primer is not fully seated/flush. I use the "ol index finger" on every piece of brass I prime as a test. If it doesn't feel right, then I grab the metal ruler or set the brass on a flat surface. I do prime on the LEE press now due to old hands.

You may need to adjust the Dillion swage die a bit to push more of the crimp ring out. Here is a tool that helps to see if the crimp has been removed/moved enough to allow smooth primer seating.

https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

Well worth the money IMO. You can use a handheld PP cutter to finish off those cases that are being stubborn about taking the primer.
Click to expand...
I have that tool also. Very handy. I bought the Large primer one also.
 
Shadow and everyone thanks. Shadow I've done that in fact and with the hand priming tool and the press. I mean I've rammed it as hard as I can to no avail.

A part of me wonders if it has something to do with a bad lot of the primers themselves? I bought these during the ammopocalypse which is still happening. I wonder if they aren't even CCI primers or something else bizarre. That seems unlikely, but it makes you wonder.
 
But if they go in the hornady cases ok that would indicate the brass. Only thing I can think is either bad brass. Or you over swaged to remove the crimp and damaged primer pocket some how. If you did not remove enough of the crimp it would go in stiffly and kind of snap into place once you got past the crimp. But it would not prevent it from seating.

In relation to primers. I talked to cci a while back. They stated they recommended either 450 or #41s in platforms with floating firing pins, like ar's. They said some guns will tolerate the 400s but it is gun dependent. They recommended loading one. Taking to to the range, pointing it down range, and letting the bolt drop to see if it made any significant kind of indentation on the primer. I have used standard small rifle primers in my ar's with no issue, but use 450 or #41s when I can get them.

But that's a bit of a tangent as. Like you said, your issue is most likely from them not seating fully.

Back to the brass. I don't use anything fancy. I have bought vigin winchester for my 30-06 before, but that was cause o bought the gun and needed brass to start out. But everything else has been once fired. I just try and pick say, 100pcs of brass with matching head stamps, and keep them together through all the processes. I keep using that batch until it goes bad, throw it in the scrap bin, and sort out another 100. I use a brass Goat to catch my brass. Pretty nifty. Snaps on your lower, does not melt (looking at you caldwell)
 
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These are crimped primers. Never buy those. Too much pain to deal with. When buying used 223 brass, make sure no crimp. Then zero issues. Some Swagger is not even the solution, you will still have some issues because it doesn't "round off" the leading edge, it just uniforms it squarely. What you want is a RCBS one. you see how it WIDENS the entry point? Zero issues after using that.

https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/accessories/primer-pocket-swager-combo-2/16-9481.html
 
9MMand223only said:
These are crimped primers. Never buy those. Too much pain to deal with. When buying used 223 brass, make sure no crimp. Then zero issues. Some Swagger is not even the solution, you will still have some issues because it doesn't "round off" the leading edge, it just uniforms it squarely. What you want is a RCBS one. you see how it WIDENS the entry point? Zero issues after using that.

https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/accessories/primer-pocket-swager-combo-2/16-9481.html
Click to expand...
I had one of those. Worked great but was a PITA to use. Cases always got stuck. I got a cutter and called it good.

Either way. What is being described is the primer not wanting to fully seat. At that point your way past the crimp issues.
 
Most of the reloading tool outfits make a tool for chamfering the inside of a case mouth.
I'm pretty sure the one I'm thinking of is a Lyman. Its the one made for "VLD Bullets" It has a screwdriver type handle and its not the usual 45 Degee side /90 deg included chamfer.
Its a shallower,skinnier angle. It might be 22and a half deg per side/45 deg included.

I'm thinking a twist of the wrist or two with one of those will fix you tight pockets.

But I also think if your Dillon is set right it ought to do the job right.

One thing you can count on from Dillon is customer support. Call their tech line and talk to them.


I think you have the best of tools. I don't think you need another tool. But regarding the RCBS tool, and this comment:

I had one of those. Worked great but was a PITA to use. Cases always got stuck. I got a cutter and called it good.
Click to expand...

The RCBS tool comes with a stripper cup.That cup goes over the top of the swage punch and ram. When the ram comes down,the cup contacts the press frame and strips the stuck case off the swage punch. Were you using the cup, Shadow9mm?


Its not acceptable for your primers to be above flush at all. Technically,they should be slightly below flush (I don't know the number,but I'd guess .002)

Pretty much all 5.56 Nato brass made to military specs will be crimped.
 
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A couple years ago I purchase a thousand pieces of LC brass and processed them. After running them through my RCBS swager I checked them with the pocket gauge and the ones that the go gauge failed I used my RCBS chamfering tool to chamfer the pocket and then the gauge would go. I also hand prime using the Frankford Arsenal tool, but I just crank the tool all the way up and seat them as firm as I can rather than try adjusting it for any certain seating depth. Using his method I’ve never had a single issue seating and firing any reloaded LC brass. Other than plinking ammo using any old brass, I use LC brass exclusively for my better more accurate target ammo.
 
HiBC said:
Most of the reloading tool outfits make a tool for chamfering the inside of a case mouth.
I'm pretty sure the one I'm thinking of is a Lyman. Its the one made for "VLD Bullets" It has a screwdriver type handle and its not the usual 45 Degee side /90 deg included chamfer.
Its a shallower,skinnier angle. It might be 22and a half deg per side/45 deg included.

I'm thinking a twist of the wrist or two with one of those will fix you tight pockets.

But I also think if your Dillon is set right it ought to do the job right.

One thing you can count on from Dillon is customer support. Call their tech line and talk to them.


I think you have the best of tools. I don't think you need another tool. But regarding the RCBS tool, and this comment:



The RCBS tool comes with a stripper cup.That cup goes over the top of the swage punch and ram. When the ram comes down,the cup contacts the press frame and strips the stuck case off the swage punch. Were you using the cup, Shadow9mm?


Its not acceptable for your primers to be above flush at all. Technically,they should be slightly below flush (I don't know the number,but I'd guess .002)

Pretty much all 5.56 Nato brass made to military specs will be crimped.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, I was using the stripper cup. I would have to sit there and slam the handle 2-3 times to get the cup to pop the brass off.

And no, I adjusted it just enough to write primers went in smoothly every time. I did not crank it down too far.
 
I mean I've rammed it as hard as I can to no avail.
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If you're ramming the primers in to seat them, you're doing it wrong and dangerously!

What works for me, with GI brass, is to use the nose of the chamfering tool to cut the crimp out. Couple of twists and its done, and never needs doing again.

CCIs are widely known as "tight" fitting primers. More so than Rem, Win, or Federal. I've been using the RCBS hand primer for the last few decades, after decades of on the press priming, and I find the difference in the feel seating them to be tremendous. With the hand unit, I can feel the primer "bottom out" properly. With a press mounted system, is much more difficult and as a result, one tends to use more force than needed.

Never use speed (with force) in any part of the reloading process.
 
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