freakshow10mm
Moderator
The wounding mechanisms between arrows and bullets differ greatly. When lacerating tissue, you don't need much energy.
Have you Killed Whitetail with the 223Cal. rifle?
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retrieverman
New member
To answer the initial question, yes, my sons and I have all killed several deer with a 223 using 55 gr soft point bullets, and whether they were shot in the shoulder or the neck, none traveled over 20 yards.
**I will clarify that I do not "advocate" the use of 223 on deer because the margin of error is very small, but it can be used successfully in a pinch.**
**I will clarify that I do not "advocate" the use of 223 on deer because the margin of error is very small, but it can be used successfully in a pinch.**
BurkGlocker
New member
Never have used the .223 Remmy, BUT... I have used my .220 Swift and taken numerous deer with it. Loaded up with 60 gr Hornady soft points, I havent had a deer one run on me (yet
), just crumple... But as was said earlier, shot placement is crucial. all of my shots were in the neck. My father used a 22-250 for years for his choice deer round, but that was on our 'small' Texas deer. 
(Still would like to see how the Partition works on the deer though....)
), just crumple... But as was said earlier, shot placement is crucial. all of my shots were in the neck. My father used a 22-250 for years for his choice deer round, but that was on our 'small' Texas deer. (Still would like to see how the Partition works on the deer though....)Just ask your Dog!
I've never been hunting. But I'd imagine you could take a white tail just fine with a .223, provided you get a great shot, and if you dont have a great shot, but still take a shot, then shame on you.
If I ever do get around to hunting one day, I think I'll take the Single shot 45-70 my Grandpa just gave me. He's killed a few deer with it, and he also let a friend borrow it once to hunt with, they both said every deer they shot with it dropped where it stood. Thats what I'm talking about!
Save the .223's for the little critters, and small to medium game. Unless, like I said, your very sure of your shot, and maybe your an experienced hunter who feels like he needs a challenge.
Just think about it, would you like to die from a slow and painfull .38 special shot to the chest? Or be shocked out of your body by a Shotgun slug? Animals have feelings too, just ask your dog!
I've never been hunting. But I'd imagine you could take a white tail just fine with a .223, provided you get a great shot, and if you dont have a great shot, but still take a shot, then shame on you.
If I ever do get around to hunting one day, I think I'll take the Single shot 45-70 my Grandpa just gave me. He's killed a few deer with it, and he also let a friend borrow it once to hunt with, they both said every deer they shot with it dropped where it stood. Thats what I'm talking about!
Save the .223's for the little critters, and small to medium game. Unless, like I said, your very sure of your shot, and maybe your an experienced hunter who feels like he needs a challenge.
Just think about it, would you like to die from a slow and painfull .38 special shot to the chest? Or be shocked out of your body by a Shotgun slug? Animals have feelings too, just ask your dog!
guntotin_fool
New member
Lots of people here saying they work fine are shooting texas or southern swamp deer. they might weigh 125 walking around. In the northern white tail range, you could conceivably get a gut pile bigger than a Texas deer.
The .223 might work ok on small deer, but on big deer, sometimes even a .243 is not the best choice. Sure everybody talks about some guy who has 22 bull elk all shot one shot with a .223/.243 or something, but for the weekend guy, who does no live in a forest or or has his mail delivered to the tree stand, we need bigger rounds to make sure the deer stops here and now.
I also wonder how many deer get "missed" (wounded) by the .223 and the animals minimal reaction and no blood trail lead to deer dying many days later.
The .223 might work ok on small deer, but on big deer, sometimes even a .243 is not the best choice. Sure everybody talks about some guy who has 22 bull elk all shot one shot with a .223/.243 or something, but for the weekend guy, who does no live in a forest or or has his mail delivered to the tree stand, we need bigger rounds to make sure the deer stops here and now.
I also wonder how many deer get "missed" (wounded) by the .223 and the animals minimal reaction and no blood trail lead to deer dying many days later.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
My first deer kill was a doe. .222 Rem. Close. Patient ol' gal. Shot her in the white spot. DRT.
Contrast situation: A bragging buck jumps and runs, and you want him. The shot will be quartering away. Me, I don't want anything that won't penetrate a good distance through the body to reach the heart/lungs. No centerfire .22s for that shot.
A couple of days ago I was happily clanging the 400-yard antelope at Whittington with my .220 Swift and my .223 bolt action. 30 mph wind. I darned sure would not take either gun on a real hunt, though.
Contrast situation: A bragging buck jumps and runs, and you want him. The shot will be quartering away. Me, I don't want anything that won't penetrate a good distance through the body to reach the heart/lungs. No centerfire .22s for that shot.
A couple of days ago I was happily clanging the 400-yard antelope at Whittington with my .220 Swift and my .223 bolt action. 30 mph wind. I darned sure would not take either gun on a real hunt, though.
davlandrum
New member
Nope, and can't imagine that will ever change to yep...
W. C. Quantrill
New member
Over and over and over
It amazes me that this question just keeps popping up. Those who really hunt and shoot discourage the use of the sub calibers for hunting. But, a week later another thread pops up.
Some of you shoot on a regular basis. So do I. Can I kill a deer? Of course. I have seen deer killed with a .22 LR. That doesnt mean that every city boy should go get a sub caliber rifle and go to the woods to wound animals.
Like the other guys said, .22 isnt big enough for game animals. Period. In most states it is not legal. Even if it is, it is only good in the hands of a really good shooter.
It amazes me that this question just keeps popping up. Those who really hunt and shoot discourage the use of the sub calibers for hunting. But, a week later another thread pops up.
Some of you shoot on a regular basis. So do I. Can I kill a deer? Of course. I have seen deer killed with a .22 LR. That doesnt mean that every city boy should go get a sub caliber rifle and go to the woods to wound animals.
Like the other guys said, .22 isnt big enough for game animals. Period. In most states it is not legal. Even if it is, it is only good in the hands of a really good shooter.
MeekAndMild
New member
No.
Why does everyone seem to think that the diameter of a bullet has anything to do with its destructive capabilities?
With Tech today, any diameter is easily capable.
The real question is, which bullet for which case.
As always, if you are not comfortable with it, don't do it.
I mean that statement for any caliber.
For this question: No, I have not.
I have with a 204.
With Tech today, any diameter is easily capable.
The real question is, which bullet for which case.
As always, if you are not comfortable with it, don't do it.
I mean that statement for any caliber.
For this question: No, I have not.
I have with a 204.
Sidetracked
New member
Two of the states I hunt in dropped the .23 caliber requirement this year...
Even though it means I could hunt with my .220 Swift... There is no way in hell I am going to. I am praying they recind the decison, and take up a .23 or .24 caliber requirement again.
I don't want to rehash what has already been said about lethality vs. skilled hunters vs. average Joe vs. shot placement.
I personally feel it isn't enough when in the hands of the average hunter.
...Don't even get me started on the ".22 Hornet for deer" guys.
Even though it means I could hunt with my .220 Swift... There is no way in hell I am going to. I am praying they recind the decison, and take up a .23 or .24 caliber requirement again.
I don't want to rehash what has already been said about lethality vs. skilled hunters vs. average Joe vs. shot placement.
I personally feel it isn't enough when in the hands of the average hunter.
...Don't even get me started on the ".22 Hornet for deer" guys.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
A skilled outdoorsman who's a skilled shooter can do things that a desk jockey who gets out a couple of times a year and who shoots very little shouldn't ever try.
Simple as that, really.
Simple as that, really.
No, I haven't...
...but the biggest buck off my family's farm (central KY, almost perfectly symmetrical 12 pointer dressed out @ 180lbs) was taken with a single shot H&R .223 Handi-Rifle, shooting factory 55gr V-Max, by a super-skinny 110lb 16 year old son of a family friend at about 50 yards. One shot into the vitals and the deer never took so much as a single step.
It was his first whitetail.
...but the biggest buck off my family's farm (central KY, almost perfectly symmetrical 12 pointer dressed out @ 180lbs) was taken with a single shot H&R .223 Handi-Rifle, shooting factory 55gr V-Max, by a super-skinny 110lb 16 year old son of a family friend at about 50 yards. One shot into the vitals and the deer never took so much as a single step.
It was his first whitetail.
BurkGlocker
New member
Let me reitterate about taking deer with my .220 Swift. Most of my shots were within 50 yards. Any farther than than that, I just dont think that the .224" caliber bullets are up to the task. Its knowing your area and the limitations of your choosen weapon that dictate when you make your kill shot. I have passed up deer that I knew would look good on my wall, but I made a choice that my rifle wouldnt suffice for a clean kill at that yardage. And yes, those were the times that I wished I had my .308 with me, but hindsight is always 20/20... Now taking deer with a .22 Hornet... I have heard about people doing it, but it makes me cringe everytime I hear it...:barf:
Now taking deer with a .22 Hornet... I have heard about people doing it, but it makes me cringe everytime I hear it...:barf:zaroffhunts
Inactive
As long as you use good bullets and have good shot placement, .223 works well on deer and most other mammals up to 100kg or so.
make adjustments
I am an experienced hunter and I have all the confidence in the world that I can make the kill regardless of the Caliber I choose to carry that day. If I'm hunting in cover where my shots are A shorter range say seventy yards or less A 223 cal. or 22-250 or 30-30 cal. might be my choice. I may have to let the deer turn A little more, move its head A certail way,come A little closer (ect.) or I might just pass up the shot all together if I don't feel comfortable with my shot. I have never went hunting when I felt I had to kill A deer. I can tell you this much, when I do shoot I will have the same success that I would have with A larger Caliber. I found out A long time ago its not so much the gun as it is the man behind it.
I am an experienced hunter and I have all the confidence in the world that I can make the kill regardless of the Caliber I choose to carry that day. If I'm hunting in cover where my shots are A shorter range say seventy yards or less A 223 cal. or 22-250 or 30-30 cal. might be my choice. I may have to let the deer turn A little more, move its head A certail way,come A little closer (ect.) or I might just pass up the shot all together if I don't feel comfortable with my shot. I have never went hunting when I felt I had to kill A deer. I can tell you this much, when I do shoot I will have the same success that I would have with A larger Caliber. I found out A long time ago its not so much the gun as it is the man behind it.
Nope. I have seen in the excitement of the moment that an average hunter will take a less than good shot. All you outdoorsmen that can shoot the wings off of a gnat at 100 paces are assuming quite a bit.
Rule number one of hunting whitetail, DOO DOO OCCURS!
Have enough bullet and speed to overcome some inperfections in shot placement due to wind, movement, obstructions, etc. Practice is a must but experience is earned.
Everything can be perfect. It just usually isn't. You can quote me on that.
BTW- Just because a bullet can kill a man doesn't mean it will kill a whitetail deer so that you can recover it. Bad thinking!
Rule number one of hunting whitetail, DOO DOO OCCURS!
Have enough bullet and speed to overcome some inperfections in shot placement due to wind, movement, obstructions, etc. Practice is a must but experience is earned.
Everything can be perfect. It just usually isn't. You can quote me on that.
BTW- Just because a bullet can kill a man doesn't mean it will kill a whitetail deer so that you can recover it. Bad thinking!
W. C. Quantrill
New member
Good philosophy, Art.
One more thing. I have taken those desk jockeys out. You know, like the one in the movie SNIPER,,?? Oh, man, you know, the big paycheck, fancy car, limited edition gun toys. Pays the big bucks to shoot tiny holes IN PAPER at the "proper named" gun range. Contributes heavily to the Dallas Safari Club. Uh-huh you have the image on the back of your eyelids right now, dontcha?
They are wearing $1000 worth of designer camos while you are wearing Wranglers and a Carhartt jacket. You get them on the buck and they crap themselves. Buck fever. Hyperventilating, sweating, shaking like a dog crapping razorblades. They go into psychobabble and start talking crap. >>>CUT<<< At this point in the hunt, it wouldnt matter if they had a belt fed 40mm grenade laucher. They are going to miss or wound the animal and it is going to run off.
Let me make something clear. I have no qualms about killing, whether it be human or animal. If it needs it, it needs it. I do have all sorts of objections to pain and suffering. Dont ever, ever let me catch you hurting an animal or a child. You will have no defense.
With that bit of personal logic, and knowing human nature, only in the hands of a skilled outdoorsman would a sub caliber be acceptable. I know that theres a few young men in this thread that fit in that mold, but most forumites do not kill frequently enough to do so with cold nerves. That is the difference. Just as the desk jocky in SNIPER couldnt cut it, many many others cant either because they are not used to killing. Poking holes in paper is not the same as killing. I took this guy out last year, he did kill a deer, but when I took him down there, he got the shakes and when he tried to gut it, he puked. Killing isnt for everyone. Hunting is killing. If it isnt in your makeup to coldly kill, then spend your money on a good camera instead of a gun.
One more thing. I have taken those desk jockeys out. You know, like the one in the movie SNIPER,,?? Oh, man, you know, the big paycheck, fancy car, limited edition gun toys. Pays the big bucks to shoot tiny holes IN PAPER at the "proper named" gun range. Contributes heavily to the Dallas Safari Club. Uh-huh you have the image on the back of your eyelids right now, dontcha?
They are wearing $1000 worth of designer camos while you are wearing Wranglers and a Carhartt jacket. You get them on the buck and they crap themselves. Buck fever. Hyperventilating, sweating, shaking like a dog crapping razorblades. They go into psychobabble and start talking crap. >>>CUT<<< At this point in the hunt, it wouldnt matter if they had a belt fed 40mm grenade laucher. They are going to miss or wound the animal and it is going to run off.
Let me make something clear. I have no qualms about killing, whether it be human or animal. If it needs it, it needs it. I do have all sorts of objections to pain and suffering. Dont ever, ever let me catch you hurting an animal or a child. You will have no defense.
With that bit of personal logic, and knowing human nature, only in the hands of a skilled outdoorsman would a sub caliber be acceptable. I know that theres a few young men in this thread that fit in that mold, but most forumites do not kill frequently enough to do so with cold nerves. That is the difference. Just as the desk jocky in SNIPER couldnt cut it, many many others cant either because they are not used to killing. Poking holes in paper is not the same as killing. I took this guy out last year, he did kill a deer, but when I took him down there, he got the shakes and when he tried to gut it, he puked. Killing isnt for everyone. Hunting is killing. If it isnt in your makeup to coldly kill, then spend your money on a good camera instead of a gun.