Have you had to draw or shoot your weapon to defend yourself?

Tuckerdog1 said:
Never killed anyone, so pure speculation on how it would "actually" affect me, should it happen. But I think circumstances would play into it for me personally.
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Exactly! That's what I've been saying, and what's been misunderstood.

People are saying that even if the person you kill was a scumbag, evil criminal who was trying to rape their wife, or kill them, or kidnap their daughter, they'd be "haunted" and "see his face" and stuff... I'm not saying my way is the only way, for cryin' out loud -- but I AM asking why so many seem to believe they'd be so bothered by eliminating an evil person before the evil person got them! I personally would feel as you said you would feel. When it's him or me, I'd be hard-put to feel any guilt or sadness whatsoever.

Now, if I were in a car wreck where someone who was wearing a seatbelt and had not done something outrageously stupid to cause their death was killed, I would be saddened by that. But I guess I have an outlook on things that "stuff happens," and you can't let the rest of your life be dragged down into depression. You have to move on. If you've lost a family member to tragedy or illness, you understand that, especially if it was a painful, drawn-out thing and you saw your loved one suffer.

But bad guys? No.


-blackmind
 
blackmind said:
I wish you would be a bit more explicit in your questions, especially if you are going to be implying that you think I'm insane.


I asked a genuine question -- I don't give a damn if you don't want to answer it. So DON'T. See how much I cry, "I didn't get an answer from Clinot!"

I asked the question because an alleged LEO said that he would be all bothered by having to shoot a criminal -- and we're talking about violent criminals who have taken shots at them or otherwise posed threats to their lives! I think that "insane" is thinking that there is some big F'in tragedy in seeing the life of such a ..."person" come to an untimely end.

I offered some conjectured possibilities for why an LEO would do the opposite of relishing the chance to be the one who takes such a delinquent out of the population.

Tough luck if you can't handle a legitimate question, I guess.

-blackmind
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You insist your words were misunderstood, yet you so callously stated that I'm not talking about judging certain people to be worthy of extermination When so obviously your words are meant to be read and stated as such.

You tried to go-easy that remark by saying said that "-- I'm talking about criminal attackers, dude. People who have transgressed, not people who simply were born with the wrong skin or sexual orientation or something..."

Why are you even qualifying that statement? When later you state further foolish musings in wondering why someone would not relish the " chance to be the one who takes such a delinquent out of the population".

By the judgment of whom? Do you hold your acts above the recourse of our legal system? Who the hell are you to relish the opportunities to clear the streets of the transgressors?

Why argue with you? You are like a vigilante in the making and nothing I or anyone else will say will deter you from your eventual newspaper front page glory.
 
Clinot said:
By the judgment of whom? Do you hold your acts above the recourse of our legal system? Who the hell are you to relish the opportunities to clear the streets of the transgressors?
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Wow, talk about holier-than-thou! Is it okay to be judgmental of me in your criticism of me being judgmental? The second wrong makes the right? After all, I'm only talking about being "judgmental" of someone who is in my face threatening my LIFE. Yeah, I am okay with being "judgmental" in such a case. Hard to mistake who to shoot when someone is trying to kill you, I would imagine.

Do I hold my acts to be above legal recourse? I do what I feel is right. Most of the time that is well within what the law of the land says is right. You can be assured that I certainly do feel that if my life is truly threatened by an unprovoked criminal attack, if I kill that person YES I feel that my act is above reproach.
Me = law abiding. Criminal = tried to kill me
So where's the issue?

Who am I to relish the elimination of criminal scum from the midst of honorable society? No different from anyone else who wishes to live in peace, but prepares for war. I feel no shame for wanting criminals gone, one way or the other. Just accept the fact that I'm different from you, and won't cry over a criminal whose actions get him killed by his victim; and I won't be the victim who has compunctions about killing his attacker, if that should happen some day. I have good track record: 34 years and haven't had to shoot anybody. If your assumptions about me were correct, I probably would be cruising out to the many "bad areas of town" around here to try to bait a bad guy into trying to rob me just so I could "clear the streets."

Contrary to what you seem to think, I don't act the vigilante. I mind my own business. But I don't understand the idiotic sympathy that so many exhibit for BAD guys.


-blackmind
 
But if somebody was threatening a member of my family, I kill 'em, retell the story at every Thanksgiving dinner & on every anniversary of the killing, I'd piss on their grave. When it comes to family, no sympathy & no regrets!
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Ohh same here. While I may feel a little sympathy for killing an armed drunk who attacks me alone, I would have no sympathy for someone who comes after my family. Especially my kids. I like the Thanksgiving day story part. "It is great you were all able to make it...hey remember the time I pumped 6 rounds into that guy who broke into the house...pass the turkey.
 
Clinot said:
Why argue with you? You are like a vigilante in the making and nothing I or anyone else will say will deter you from your eventual newspaper front page glory.
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Enough with the damn name calling. Blackmind has an opinion. Get over it. I don't see him slinging these kinds of insults.

Now that that's out of the way... Blackmind, here's my straight answer to your question:

Would it bother me to kill a bad guy? Probably. Would it bother me more if I let the bad guy get the best of me or my loved ones because I hesitated at the moment of truth? Absolutely. I'd rather live with the emotional and legal consequences of killing when it was necessary. I don't even want to entertain the thought of being so weak that I couldn't protect myself or someone I love.

From a relative viewpoint, I can understand where you're coming from.
 
From about 1986 thru 1993, I was a photographer in NYC.
Between jobs, I would drive a Yellow Cab at night.
I won't go into detail, but I drew, and pointed, my Colt .38 Det.Sp. on more than one occassion and INSTANTLY diffused the situation.
"Nuff said!:cool:
 
Thank God, I never had to present my weapon.

In war, my father obviously did. At home, just a few years ago he had to deter a threat. He and my mom lived out in the country. On night he awakes to the sound of something at the front door. He takes the 2-barrel shotgun and walks into the living room to see 2 young men trying to jimmy open the front door. The front door has a glass window imbedded in it. My dad pops the light on, and puts the shotgun barrel against the glass. The guys look up, see the gun, and run to their truck.
 
..had a well-meaning but rather stupid indian acquantice rattle the back door..it was locked..one night...his family had been storing some stuff in our back yard and he wanted to tell us he was retrieving it...at least that is what I am going to believe...anyway i was in another part of the house and heard the back door handle being repeatdely jiggled...got a small automatic that was close-by and slowly parted the curtain and pointed it right at him...of course everything defused itself at that point...but so far that was the only time I took a bead on anyone...
 
My first post, and I've drawn twice. Maybe I really am an outlier. Sorry for such a long first post.

The first time was about 14 years ago when I was 21. I used to play in a rock band, and our rehearsal hall was in a VERY bad part of downtown. The guitarist and myself were putting some gear in my car (around 1am) when two guys walk up on either side of the car. My door is open and my gun is sitting on the seat (I had just put it there). The guy on my side says "gimmie your money". I tell him ok, and reach in my car and pull out my gun and hold it pointed towards the ground. I look him in the eyes and tell him “I don't have any money”. He just stands there for a second, and his buddy on the other side of my car says "get the money", or something to that effect. That guy doesn't see my gun. The guy on my side seemed stunned for a few seconds, and then says "ok man, that's cool" (or something like that) and tells his buddy "lets go", in an urgent tone. I glance over and the other guy has such a perplexed look on his face. He doesn't know what's gotten into his buddy. They walk quickly away, and we quickly get in the car and get out of there.

After it was over, I actually got scared and had the shakes. I often think what would have happened if the situation had escalated. At 21, I hadn't fully worked out the awesome responsibility of having a firearm at the ready. I'm glad I had it, but even more glad I didn't have to actually "use" it.

The second time I drew my weapon at someone was several years ago at the house we were living at the time. It was around 3am. My wife wakes me up freaking out. She is frantic telling me someone is banging on the back door. Sure enough, someone is going to town on the door leading out to the garage. We didn't live in a "bad" part of town, but it was beginning to creep our way. Someone had recently broken into one of our cars, and had stolen a radio. I wasn't taking any chances at 3am. The door had a window, and I pulled the curtain back and pointed the gun through the glass. The guy had on nothing but shorts (no shirt, no shoes, and his hands were bleeding). He sees the gun and screams "don't shoot". I ask him what he wants and he says someone broke into his apartment down the street. He asks to come in (yeah, like that was going to happen). I call the cops, they talk to me, they talk to him, and his story doesn't pan out, as I learn the next day. Turns out it was some kind of drug deal gone wrong and some guys came to even the score from what the cop tells me the next night.

Should I have pulled my weapon? I don't know. It was a split second decision regarding what to do when someone unexpected is banging at your door at 3am. I did what I thought was best at the time to keep my family safe. Thankfully, I've only shot silhouettes, and never somebody.
 
Probably about four or five years ago, the lovely wife and I are silting watching "Erin Brokovich"(sp) . My wife got up to get a snack and told me to come lookout the window. I get up and take a look. There in our neighbors driveway, is some putz, naked as a jaybird, laying on our neighbors driveway with his feet around his ears spanking the monkey to beat the farm.:barf:

Good thing she thinks grass is a green blur without her glasses. I, for some reason, could not believe what I saw so I went to sit back down and continue watching the movie. After some words at me from her I get back up and come to the window and get the phone; calling 911. (oh my, I forgot to tell you, the window was open and Putz evidently heard her tone) He gets up and starts walking towards the house, a distance of about 70 or 80 feet. I give her the phone and go to the bedroom for my. 357.

As I am returning to her, I hear her say that he has disappeared in the shadows. I proceed to check all windows and doors and wait for more than thirty minutes till the Law shows up. Together, we search around and find nothing but the grizzly remains of his loneliness. Finding nothing, he sends me home and patrols the area behind the wheel.

With the exception of my neighbors driveway, nothing was the worse for wear. I let my neighbors know that a prowler was around, and let it go.

Funny thing was that the 911 dispatcher kept telling my wife that I needed to put the gun away. She politely told the dispatcher that it would remain handy until the deputy arrived.

I will admit that it was a little hairy in real life, but I was actually pretty tightly wrapped and not spazzing in any way.

(my wife was reading this over my shoulder and said I actually got it pretty much right.)
 
Right response

This is for Zachary Vonler, it was the right response. You are not dead, and not in prison. That's all the reassurance you should need.:cool:
 
Adrenaline makes the runner go fast!

One night I was jogging around town cause I had gotten into this whole healthy thing, which is fine. But when I do I always carry. This is before I quallified for a concealed carry permit. I would wear bdu style pants, a shirt, and an on the belt, open carry, holster. Weapon of choice was a Bersa Thunder .380, good gun for weight and relative stopping power. This night consisted of 9 1/2 miles of jogging and speed walking, (i'm not Lance Armstrong afterall). About halfway I was stopped on the street by the local PD, made to "assume the position" for the first time in my life, and searched. All this I will say I did not mind at all, they are just doing their jobs and I applaud them for it. And since I had nothing to hide I fully cooperated, (not that I would have resisted had I something to hide). Anyway they ran the numbers on my gun, everything came back fine, and they let me go about my buisness, explaining there had been numerous break-ins in the area recently and where just being safe. Mind you this is at about 3 a.m. and how often do you see someone with a holster, urban camo colored pants, running down the street. I use what I have, I can't afford the best jogging gear. Anyway about ten minutes later I made the mistake of running down a very poorly lit street which was a fairly main thoroughfair during daylight hours, but can get nasty at night. I noticed a hispanic male in black pants and white wife beater, (local colors here for the south side locals being black and white), leaning against a wall kind of weaving back and forth. I jogged past him on the other side of the street. He proceeded to try to get my attention and I could hear words like, "hey man" "****" "hey can I talk" "you ain't got to be afraid". Normally I would take no alarm to words like this but I was jogging and as I looked back, so was he, after me. I picked up the pace and he hurled some surly and drunken insults my way and continued to keep pace with me about 30 or 40 yards back. I was approaching an intersection where there was a gas station and better lighting, unfortunately it was closed. I turned the corner and proceeded up a fairly steep hill and apparently he gave up as I didn't see him emerge from the shadows into the lights of the intersection. Again, bear in mind, I am still moderately over weight so I am not use to running long distances but oddly enough I didn't have a problem through all this. Once I got down the other side of the hill and a good ways beyond, all the while looking back to make sure he had indeed stopped chasing me, I slowed to a walk, drew my gun and racked a round into the chamber and reholstered. At this point in time I was under the impression it was illegal to carry a gun with a round in front of the firing pin, in New Mexico however this is not the case. But I didn't know that in case you were wondering why I was a carrying a gun for protection without it being ready to fire. Nothing further occured that night but I assure you I was looking over my shoulder the whole 5 miles back to my house. That made it about a 9 1/2 mile trip total. Impressive for an overweight man in my opinion.:cool:
 
To ask if someone would feel bad about killing someone is too much a loaded question I think to ask. Everyone is raised differently and has different levels of emotional restraint and control. It's like the time when I was 10 and I asked my dad if he ever killed someone in Vietnam...(moment of silence).
He just kind of looked down and said he called some people in on some people, (he carried a radio).

12 years later i'm in the navy. I'm a radioman but somehow, I spend 80 percent of my time underway in foreign waters, standing behind a dual .50cal mount. I AM ready to defend the ship, I AM ready to take the lives of people assaulting this ship because to destroy the ship is to destroy me. And to me, my life will always be more important than a terrorists.

Now I know it's different in an urban setting back "home". But to take another's life is well... to send the soul God gave that individual back to God to be judged. There is no act more serious than that. That puts you in one of three places in the individual's life that mean the most than any other place anywhere else. GOD gave him life,...HE lived some of his life,...and YOU took his life.

Before anyone carries a gun, they need to stop and think about that and decide if they are ready to do it. If it means protecting my family or protecting my ability to return to my family every night...well, I'm ready.:cool:
 
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