Has the world gone mad??
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wild cat mccane
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I would argue that hoarders not selling their cache are crazy. Where can you get double you return with an avg income? nowhere.
Those people are crazy.
Those people are crazy.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
I've deleted several off-topic posts. We're not talking about the state of the world in general, here.
I wish I had more .22lr...
I wish I had more .22lr...
I bought all my stuff; another AR, 30 rd mags, ammo for all my guns before the election because I knew the Repubs were disorganized and that, for the most part its very hard to unseat an incumbent. Then of course came the shooting and the threats of an awb and the panic began. I'm flush for the time being, but you never know about tomorrow.
Colorado Redneck
New member
This from Forbes--Hope it doesn't get deleted
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbe...ecurity-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
1.6 billion rounds of 5.56 ammo for DHLS? Say what? I don't subscribe to conspiracy stuff, but I would like to know what in tarnation is going on. This can't be helping the average John Q Citizen, and makes me wonder why the government doesn't buy things in an orderly fashion. Eighty million rounds per year makes sense-- 1.6 billion not so much.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbe...ecurity-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
1.6 billion rounds of 5.56 ammo for DHLS? Say what? I don't subscribe to conspiracy stuff, but I would like to know what in tarnation is going on. This can't be helping the average John Q Citizen, and makes me wonder why the government doesn't buy things in an orderly fashion. Eighty million rounds per year makes sense-- 1.6 billion not so much.
I read there is something like 70,000 DHS armed employees not counting Border Patrol. So maybe 100,000 total, max? That would be 16,000 rds per employee or 4,000/yr. for 4 yr contract?
I seriously doubt every single armed employee gets the chance to shoot anywhere 1,000 rds/yr let alone 4,000. Seems like way more being contracted for than they could even hope in their dreams to use for employee training.
And why the stonewalling? If there was no hidden agenda why not just quote previous years usage to establish need?
I seriously doubt every single armed employee gets the chance to shoot anywhere 1,000 rds/yr let alone 4,000. Seems like way more being contracted for than they could even hope in their dreams to use for employee training.
And why the stonewalling? If there was no hidden agenda why not just quote previous years usage to establish need?
You're on the right track.
The contract was for 4-5 years, and the stated amount is an "UP TO" figure, not an actual ordered quantity.
In addition, DHS has training facilities that are available to all Federal LE agents of which there are somewhere around 150,000 and it appears that this buy is to cover all Federal LE issue & training ammo, not just the DHS proper.
Even if you figure that they actually do buy the entire 1.6 billion which is not at all a sure thing, it only works out to something like 2700-2100 rounds per Federal LEO. Not out of line at all, in my opinion.
DISCLAIMER: What follows is just my opinion. I haven't read all the posts on this thread yet, and I apologize if I'm repeating anybody or everybody else that came before me. Here goes-
The world has NOT, repeat NOT, gone mad. However, the saturation of the internet (witness our presence on this forum) has made everyone's madness accessible to other people pretty much worldwide, so that where once upon a time you would be bidding on rare commodities against people from 150 miles away, or MAYBE 1000 at the most, and the process would be an actual auction where people had to physically show up on the day, or send a straw buyer, and buy the junk right there; now people from Florida compete with people from Idaho who compete with people from Alaska, to buy ammo from a guy in Missouri, and bid at the speed of light.
So the end result is that the tiny percentage (.1% maybe?) of shooters who are willing to pay 400% inflated prices can match up with the sellers who charge those prices. And thus the market ends up for a little while in a business model where everyone is in a race to the top, where a bunch of sellers and re-sellers are trying to make as much as they can while it lasts, and those who don't jack their prices up to the sky (like Bass Pro, Cabela's, Legacy, a few others) are sold out and get bad-mouthed all over the internet, because they sold for a fair price- and the only ones who have ammo to sell are the insanely expensive, who couldn't sell it while anybody had any left at a decent price.
Does this make any sense to anyone? It's late and I'm still recovering from a root canal procedure, codeine often seems to lend clarity but it just as often turns your writing to pure BS. Someone please let me know if I'm BSing all over the forum.
But it seems to me that the temporary insanity will end once we- that is, the 99.9%- refuse to indulge the greedy putzes who are trying to gouge us and just don't buy from them. After all, though it seems blasphemous to say it, there are more important things than shooting. I myself have been conserving my ammo so far this year, even though I have 3 new guns since Christmas.
Through patience and no small amount of luck, I managed to score about 1000-1200 rounds for each of my major calibers, at good prices, which should last me the year. I fired just enough to get them broken in nicely, then decided to hold off until the crisis ends. In my mind, that will be when I can once again buy a brick of mini-mags at my LGS. Until then, I will just limit myself to 50 or 100 rounds once a month to keep my hand in, and only buy at what I judge to be a reasonable price. Thus I will feel like I am part of the solution. And sanity will slowly return.
The fact that the AWB was dropped, in a bow to political reality which I've been predicting for months now, will surely help too. But I'm not saying "I told you so." (See? Didn't say it. Specifically said I wasn't saying it. Gracious in victory, that's me. Not saying it, no sir, not me.
)
The world has NOT, repeat NOT, gone mad. However, the saturation of the internet (witness our presence on this forum) has made everyone's madness accessible to other people pretty much worldwide, so that where once upon a time you would be bidding on rare commodities against people from 150 miles away, or MAYBE 1000 at the most, and the process would be an actual auction where people had to physically show up on the day, or send a straw buyer, and buy the junk right there; now people from Florida compete with people from Idaho who compete with people from Alaska, to buy ammo from a guy in Missouri, and bid at the speed of light.
So the end result is that the tiny percentage (.1% maybe?) of shooters who are willing to pay 400% inflated prices can match up with the sellers who charge those prices. And thus the market ends up for a little while in a business model where everyone is in a race to the top, where a bunch of sellers and re-sellers are trying to make as much as they can while it lasts, and those who don't jack their prices up to the sky (like Bass Pro, Cabela's, Legacy, a few others) are sold out and get bad-mouthed all over the internet, because they sold for a fair price- and the only ones who have ammo to sell are the insanely expensive, who couldn't sell it while anybody had any left at a decent price.
Does this make any sense to anyone? It's late and I'm still recovering from a root canal procedure, codeine often seems to lend clarity but it just as often turns your writing to pure BS. Someone please let me know if I'm BSing all over the forum.
But it seems to me that the temporary insanity will end once we- that is, the 99.9%- refuse to indulge the greedy putzes who are trying to gouge us and just don't buy from them. After all, though it seems blasphemous to say it, there are more important things than shooting. I myself have been conserving my ammo so far this year, even though I have 3 new guns since Christmas.
Through patience and no small amount of luck, I managed to score about 1000-1200 rounds for each of my major calibers, at good prices, which should last me the year. I fired just enough to get them broken in nicely, then decided to hold off until the crisis ends. In my mind, that will be when I can once again buy a brick of mini-mags at my LGS. Until then, I will just limit myself to 50 or 100 rounds once a month to keep my hand in, and only buy at what I judge to be a reasonable price. Thus I will feel like I am part of the solution. And sanity will slowly return.
The fact that the AWB was dropped, in a bow to political reality which I've been predicting for months now, will surely help too. But I'm not saying "I told you so." (See? Didn't say it. Specifically said I wasn't saying it. Gracious in victory, that's me. Not saying it, no sir, not me.
)DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition
And Big Sis just keep racking it up!
http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/
And Big Sis just keep racking it up!
http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/
The RUMOR I heard yesterday at the trap club is that the US Govt. is buying up and hoarding ammo -- to drive up the price and discourage people from RKBA.
Trap ammo -- 12 gauge, low base, 1 oz. light load, 7 1/2 - 8 birdshot -- which the club purchases by the truck load -- seems to be available and holding steady on price. But then, it's not on the "list."
Trap ammo -- 12 gauge, low base, 1 oz. light load, 7 1/2 - 8 birdshot -- which the club purchases by the truck load -- seems to be available and holding steady on price. But then, it's not on the "list."
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Stevie-Ray
New member
But you're already boycotting, you said it yourself. It's doubtless nobody is suggesting to stop shooting, only to quit paying the outrageous premiums tagged on todays ammo and components. If you do that and instead shoot what you stocked up on over the years, you're still boycotting. The new shooters with new guns aren't going to "stock up" at these prices; if so, they have more money than brains, and their purchases alone won't keep these prices artificially high for too much longer. I also can wait this out, in fact I'd probably wait this out if I had zero ammo on hand.
Very well said.
And today again we see yet another solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...062d923f87db4df15c676da7943&tab=core&_cview=0
It details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month. And of course this is in addition to the millions of rounds previously purchased...
Are #11 percussion caps on the "list", how about .22 ammo? I personally think that shotgun ammo just escaped being caught up in the hoarding vicious circle out of pure luck because they had enough backstock to keep the shelves full and that cooled off the panic.
Ammo zombies buy up ammo "while they can" because the shelves are nearly empty and compound the problem.
On 9-11-01, several gas stations sold out of gas where I live. Thankfully, it's hard to hoard a significant amount of gasoline and the situation did not spiral out of control.
If you poke around, you'll find exactly such a quotation provided in writing to a senator who requested the data.
Their ammunition usage has actually been dropping over the time period quoted--something like 3-4 years.
As others have pointed out, until DHS starts buying .22LR, .22WMR, Percussion caps, etc., it's pretty obvious that their orders are not what is causing the shortage. Certainly anyone using ammo is contributing to the shortage, but based on the information I've seen DHS ammunition usage and orders are not out of line compared to past history.
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