Has or is politics dividing this nation? Long post.

N

N.H. Yankee

New member
I often wonder if the political climate has gotten to the point that there are 2 Americas. I always voted since I was eligible and was mildly political, but since the Clinton administration I have seen politics in a whole new light. I now see the mainstream democratic party ( the left meaning politicians and liberals ) for what it truely is and I don't think their agenda benifits America. The left has a campaign of hate, lies, smokescreens and personnal assassanation like never seen. They have few ideas and should be in the hall of fame for monday morning quarterbacks. I now see some division in the democratic party which didn't exist before. I think Howard dean becoming chair of the DNC is the best thing that could have happened to the republicans. This shows just what the left is becoming and where they are headed. I think if Dean had made the whitehouse, after 4 years of shear insanity, we wouldn't have to worry about the left again for a LONG time lol.

Since the Clintons I am now very active in writing to politicians and local papers. The left since the loss of 2000 and 2004 have gone off the deep end and its all due to the loss of power. I have to wonder about and fear people who crave power so much they are willing to hurt this nation and its people to regain it, but even worse they believe in what they are doing! Sadly there are still some, but very few decent Democrat politicians and Zell Miller was one of them, an old time Democrat. I see the left as deviding this country by their hate speech and lies which produces nothing positive. The left now seems to have a much deeper base of whacko's both in the party and as a voter base and it seems those on the edge of sanity gravitate to the left. I know it wasn't always this way but in the last 15 years it has gotten drastically worse. Yes the right has some wingdings too, but the left has the media, activist, and protesters which some are violent and demonize with lies anyone and anything conservative. Where do these people get the time and money?

I have seen the mainstream left for what it truely is, sadly there are quite a few good people who vote democrat and dont see what is really going on. They say all politicians are the same and there is no difference from one party to the other. When I try to debate them on the parties basic philosophy and how they have voted on various issues they are clueless. They still think the democratic party is the same one during the JFK years! I have seen a couple Dems locally who are decent but I wouldn't vote for them because it only empowers the party as a whole and I have become a one party voter. I have friends who vote democrat and they are good people, but for the most part politically ignorant. I hear reasons one has to vote democrat, I'm Irish catholic, my family has been democrat since FDR, democrat means just that democrat, liberalism is a good thing, ( yeah maybe in the true definition not the lefts version ) and last but not least JFK!

I pray another Clinton doesn't see the whitehouse as I fear there will be division and hate seen in this country like never before. I also see our rights being trampled on as from 1992-2000 and Hillary made a statement once that the constitution has outlived itself, its a living documant and needs to be overhauled and oddly she felt the time was right when she and Bill were running the show. Someone who thinks like this is a danger to freedom, justice, national security and everything that has held this country together since being implemented. Yes there have been changes, but for a president to feel they should be the one and just for the sake of change due to their personnal beliefs is dangerous to say the least. America wouldn't be the great nation it is and survived all these years if it wasn't for the forward thinking, common sense and courage of our forefathers.

Do we really have any good politicians left in the pool to draw from in 2008? Perhaps we need to elect someone who has never been in politics and owes no debts, but then again without the experience they may quickly fall prey to the washington Hyena's. Also I see the republicans as still acting like the minority and even doing things that got the left where it is today, the minority! I think it is going to come back to haunt them if they dont get back to the conservative politics that got them the majority. Sadly the left has most of the media control and this is their tool of power. The left is protected by most of the media, if the left got scrutenized and slandered by the media like the right does, where would they be? I think Clinton was perhaps the most media protected president in history. I HATE POLITICS, I HAD A LIFE BEFORE THE CLINTONS, where the h#ll is my medication!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
 
Both parties/liberals/conservatives use lies and smokescreens..... you just havent finished your education yet.

Best advice I ever got was from a sitting member Congress ... dont trust politicians.
 
In a nutshell, yes.

It's being divided on the "democracy" side (which is still the wrong direction) and the "socialist" side.

Half the country want's cradle to grave "Rights" while the other wishes some sort of the old Republic Rights.

Sadly, the socialist are going to win. Why, because of our "mandatory" government school system and the way that most American's have gotten to the point where they relay on the government (even if they were educated in the "good ol' days") for everything.

Younger people are taught that they aren't responsible for any actions, that they don't need to work hard to get ahead, that they will be "taken care of".

Older people, even those that were educated back in the days now cling to their SS checks and any mention of reform brings up the "give me" attitudes and the "the heck with the younger generation" thoughts.

We of the Republican Guard are a dying breed in what used to be the greatest Nation on the face of the earth.

I only hope that I will never live to see that day when we lose.

Wayne
 
It's the liberal/left's policy to divide us.

Men vs. women, blacks vs. whites vs. asians vs. hispanics, rich vs. poor, gays vs. heteros, military vs. civilian, christian vs. everyone else, victim du jour vs. oppressor du jour, the list is nearly endless.

Divide and conquer, instill a sense of victimzation then a sense of retribution, has been the playbook of the liberal/left for 60+ years now. It's a wonder that we're not more divided.
 
Something to think about is the fact that those in the middle are usually ignored. People buy into the flash and glitz of radical expression and hype because it gets them noticed.

Hecklers are a good example. Standing up in a fundraiser to shout out your disagreement gets you 15 seconds of fame. Writing a letter to the local paper doesn't even get you in print most of the time even if you write a good piece.

IMO, most of America belongs to the "leave me alone" crowd. As for the "socialist state" and "gimmee" attitudes of the people, ask yourself this: Do you think that those people who had retirement benefits with Enron should have to start over or should they be elegible for SSI benefits? Should single teenage mothers get AFDC (welfare) or should their kids starve while mommy is looking for the work she won't get because she's uneducated? Maybe we should take kids away from poor mothers and give them to financially stable parents (and of course, who sets the standards of "poor"?) so we don't have to support "baby factory" mothers with welfare.

I'll bet you'll have a hard time finding someone to say that financial aid to the needy is wrong. SSI was intended to help those who got screwed and now cannot support themselves in their old age. It was a backup plan. Welfare isn't a lifelong free ride either. These benefits aren't a "welfare state" and aren't "cradle to grave" benefits either.

We will always be divided in our philosophy. There will always be radicals on either side who hate the opposition. Some will even do so to the point where they are willing to engage in violence to support their "cause". There are milder forms of that hate too. Political slurs such as "liberal" or "left thinking" and the counterslurs of "conservative" and the like. It isn't the words being used that are the problem. It's the meaning and intent BEHIND the words that is the problem.

If you don't like the division, then stop being divisive. Stop using terms like "liberal" and start talking about the issues and why the counterproposals won't work to solve our problems. Otherwise all you're doing is insulting half the people you're trying to help.
 
The "left" and the "right" are guilty of the exact same lies and tactics, its just a matter of who you choose to believe are telling the truth.

In reality, neither are.

And both are choosing to sell the country for their own agendas.

For each statement you make about the liberal, socialist left someone else can make about the conservative, nationalist right.

Choose your poison.
 
Rob,

I have no problem with helping others when something happens that isn't/wasn't within their control. Like getting ripped off by large companies.

Yet, many of the people that we are being forced to help put themselves there on purpose or through some really bad decisions that were within their control.

And yes, before welfare reform, there were generations of families that lived off the welfare system, I've seen it first hand when I lived in Florida.

But like it or not, people are responsible for their own future. I didn't start investing until a couple of years ago. I looked at the SS system as well as my works system, combined with watching enron and other corporations. It finally dawned on me that what has been promised, isn't absolute. So, in my late 30's, realized that my future pension is really up to me.

As for using the terms liberal (now progressives) and conservatives, I agree with you that using such labels are helping to divide the country. You are either one, or the other. Me, I'm neither, I'm a constitutionalist. I believe in what it says, and in the written BoR's attached to it.

Call me a stubborn idiot when I don't jump on the "new rights" bandwagon where new rights are created each and every day which seem to trump my Rights.

Wayne
 
Are you the type of Constitutionalist who uses words like 'postal zone' or "A.R.R." after you write the zip code on your letters?

I'm not asking as part of an insult. I'm really interested. I'm curious what drives the whole 'Constitutionalist' mentality.
 
Yes and No.
Red and Blue.
City mouse, Country mouse.

Those who stand on their own two feet and those who need help counting that high.

Those who create wealth, pay taxes, would like to be left alone and those who benefit from that effort (gov't?) and should not be left alone for a minute.

When dealing with Politicians, look at the person first, not the party. Then vote to oust the incumbent. 'Cause once they get in office... they come to love the work and the power to help (themselves).

All in all, it's the same old story. Meet the new boss, same as...

Think back to our revolution. Federalist-Republicans vs Crown-Loyalists (er, that would be the Liberals against the Conservatives... right?). Northern Cities and Industry vs Southern Farms, Town people vs. Woodsmen/Settlers.

And still we get to gripe about our Government, the neighbors, the music our kids listen to and the slant of the local (and nationwide) news...

Is this a great country or what?
 
We have reached a near perfect 50/50 split between parties over the past few years. I think this is mainly because we haven't had a charismatic President since Reagan. When get mundane leadership people tend to fall back on their party affiliation more than they would if we had a great leader again.

The differences between liberals/conservative or democrats/republicans appear huge to us, but in reality they are 98% the same. The difference is in details, not in the grander ideologies.

Kind of like when I look at the Muslims over in Iraq, they all seem the same to me, yet to them there are huge differences. But in reality they too are probably 98% the same.

What is missing is leadership, we need greatness in our President, and so rarely does it appear.
 
Careful there, Baba, if you look too closely at which states provide the most federal taxes as to those who take the most you may find your line of thinking shattered...

Those industrial, "blue" states tend to be the great providers to the "red" states which receive the most...
 
For each statement you make about the liberal, socialist left someone else can make about the conservative, nationalist right.
Click to expand...
Which one is trying to take our guns?
Which one is trying to raise our taxes?
There are two huge issues right there where the split is vast and stark.

This propaganda that tries to blur the differences between democrat and republican party is wholly an invention of the left. In reality there is a significant difference between the two, maybe not as much as some would like, but it's there and it's real.
 
Politics has always divded this nation, that's because it's a democracy with a constitutional committment to free speech. I always liked a Federalist
editorial cartoon from the first decade of the 19th Century, entitled " Mad Tom in a rage", shows Jefferson in league with the Devil trying to pull down
a tower labeled "The Constitution". Many presidential elections were won with
pluralities of the popular vote, not majorities-1848, 1860, 1912, 1992 and 1996 all come to mind. Liberals are sore at present because Bush won by such a large popular vote-3.5 million. I voted for him, I thought he might win
by 500,000 popular votes or so. Politics is simply a form of human behavior,
and I prefer a society where ordinary people can speak their minds as opposed to one ruled by self serving elites or a "Great and Beloved Leader".
 
Politics is easily envisioned as a giant horse shoe.

On one side, you have the left; the other is the right. In the middle, are us moderates who are able to see things from both sides as being correct at times.

But, you see, if you follow the distance from either extreme, you'll find they're far closer to each other than the middle.

The problem with the "divide" in this nation is far too many people are finding themselves drawn to either end, away from the relativly sane middle and towards the dangerous extremes. The problem is neither of these ends care for the middle, only themselves.

All this talk of propaganda is solely benefits those on the ends, not us in the middle.
 
JSP, thanks for the LATEST definition of what a moderate is, or isn't!!!! :D The answer to the question is: There are no great moderates in history. There never will be. They can never make up their minds about what side they are on!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top