? Has France really started every major war in the last 1000 years?
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
Double Naught Spy
New member
No, of course not. How could you or your friend make such a definitive generalization for such a long period of time? Just how many major wars did France supposedly start in which they were not even a participant or the start of the war had nothing to do with France?
Let's see...France didn't start the current Gulf War
France didn't start...
Mongol Wars 1214 - 1402
English Scottish Wars 1314
Venetian-Turkish Wars 1416 - 1573
Wars of the Roses 1455 - 1487
Spanish-Moslem Wars 1481 - 1492
Spanish Conquest of Mexico 1519 - 1521
Mogul-Afghan War 1526
Spanish Conquest of Peru 1531 - 1533
English Spanish Wars 1588
English Civil Wars 1642 - 1651
Spanish Succession, War of the 1701 - 1714
American Revolution 1775 - 1783
Indian Wars in United States 1811 - 1887
War of 1812 1812 - 1815
Peruvian War of Independence 1824
Texan War of Independence 1836
Afghan-British War, First 1839 - 1842
Mexican War 1846 - 1847
American Civil War 1861 - 1865
Afghan-British War, Second 1878 - 1880
Zulu-British War 1879
Sudan, War for the 1881 - 1899
Spanish-American War 1898
Boer War, Second 1899 - 1902
Russo-Japanese War 1904 - 1905
World War I 1914 - 1918
Turkish War of Independence 1919 - 1923
Afghan-British War, Third 1919
World War II 1939 - 1945
Arab-Israeli War 1948 - 1949
Korean War 1950 - 1953
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Vietnam War 1965 - 1975
Six-Day War 1967
Iran-Iraq War 1980 - 1988
Both Gulf Wars
Let's see...France didn't start the current Gulf War
France didn't start...
Mongol Wars 1214 - 1402
English Scottish Wars 1314
Venetian-Turkish Wars 1416 - 1573
Wars of the Roses 1455 - 1487
Spanish-Moslem Wars 1481 - 1492
Spanish Conquest of Mexico 1519 - 1521
Mogul-Afghan War 1526
Spanish Conquest of Peru 1531 - 1533
English Spanish Wars 1588
English Civil Wars 1642 - 1651
Spanish Succession, War of the 1701 - 1714
American Revolution 1775 - 1783
Indian Wars in United States 1811 - 1887
War of 1812 1812 - 1815
Peruvian War of Independence 1824
Texan War of Independence 1836
Afghan-British War, First 1839 - 1842
Mexican War 1846 - 1847
American Civil War 1861 - 1865
Afghan-British War, Second 1878 - 1880
Zulu-British War 1879
Sudan, War for the 1881 - 1899
Spanish-American War 1898
Boer War, Second 1899 - 1902
Russo-Japanese War 1904 - 1905
World War I 1914 - 1918
Turkish War of Independence 1919 - 1923
Afghan-British War, Third 1919
World War II 1939 - 1945
Arab-Israeli War 1948 - 1949
Korean War 1950 - 1953
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Vietnam War 1965 - 1975
Six-Day War 1967
Iran-Iraq War 1980 - 1988
Both Gulf Wars
Fred Hansen
New member
Only if the inability to fight one's way out of a wet paper bag is considered the definition of "starting every major war".
The past 1000 years have been dominated by Europe. Almost all of the wars during this time occured in Europe or in European colonies. While France is a large country in Europe it is certain that they were in some way involved in most of these wars. But to say that France started all these wars is just not reasonable.
On a vaguely related note:
Ode to France
Don't you just love it.........
Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.
For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
they all made the sacrifice.
And now the shores of Normandy
are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.
Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.
Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.
Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.
You French all say we're arrogant.
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.
But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.
It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours
who fell the day the towers burned.
You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.
So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your aeroplanes.
And try to find somebody else
to wear your French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.
You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.
I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark
with those whose only flag is white.
I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.
We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire."
We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.
And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.
Don Fichthorn,
Major USMC (Retired)
Les Francaises sont putains :barf:
Ode to France
Don't you just love it.........
Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.
For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
they all made the sacrifice.
And now the shores of Normandy
are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.
Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.
Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.
Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.
You French all say we're arrogant.
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.
But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.
It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours
who fell the day the towers burned.
You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.
So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your aeroplanes.
And try to find somebody else
to wear your French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.
You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.
I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark
with those whose only flag is white.
I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.
We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire."
We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.
And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.
Don Fichthorn,
Major USMC (Retired)
Les Francaises sont putains :barf:
Double Naught Spy
New member
k_dawg, how do you figure? What was it about French imperialism in Vietnam that caused the US to go to war with Vietnam? I think you are confused with cause and effect. If you are to blame France for the war in Vietnam, then don't forget the British, Japanese, communists, and even the Chinese. France did NOT start the war that involved the US. They had been run out of Vietnam starting in 1945 when Ho Chi Minh declared Vietnam an indepedent republic. Ho Chi Minh asked for and received communist help. America helped pay France's war costs, but this did not cause the US to be involved in the French Vietnamese was. In fact, the French didn't necessarily even start that war, the freedom fighters did.
Because Vietnam was a financial and political interest to the US, we did seek to first help and then invade Vietnam where we got our butts kicked because of stupid political decisions, but the French did NOT start the war we battled.
Because Vietnam was a financial and political interest to the US, we did seek to first help and then invade Vietnam where we got our butts kicked because of stupid political decisions, but the French did NOT start the war we battled.
i hadn't realized that the origional post was "wars that the US was involved in from the very start".
I also do not consider the US involvement in Vietnam as a seperate, and totally different "war" than of the French.
It was a continual progress of war and strife in the area. The then world imperial power's thought that after defeating Japan, all their former area's of control will fall right back in line. They thought wrong. And the US should NEVER have allowed itself to been dragging into the fight.
I also do not consider the US involvement in Vietnam as a seperate, and totally different "war" than of the French.
It was a continual progress of war and strife in the area. The then world imperial power's thought that after defeating Japan, all their former area's of control will fall right back in line. They thought wrong. And the US should NEVER have allowed itself to been dragging into the fight.
I would agree that the Vietnam war started with France, and our involvement began when the French were still in country.
BTW, Ho Chi Minh requested US help in ousting the French in the 1950s. He went to the Communists AFTER we rejected the request, and provided aid to the French. Draw your own conclusions.
BTW, Ho Chi Minh requested US help in ousting the French in the 1950s. He went to the Communists AFTER we rejected the request, and provided aid to the French. Draw your own conclusions.
Easy gents - I didn't say I agreed with him Ok?
So asking "How could you or your friend" isn't fair. I said he may have a valid point,,,,,plus he isn't here to explain himself.
All I'm asking for is comments.
Pretty good start. Mind if I ask where the list came from? I may be missing them, but I don't see the Crusades listed?
Handy brings up:
So asking "How could you or your friend" isn't fair. I said he may have a valid point,,,,,plus he isn't here to explain himself.
All I'm asking for is comments.
Pretty good start. Mind if I ask where the list came from? I may be missing them, but I don't see the Crusades listed?
Handy brings up:
Exactly why I think he may have something. France may not have started it,,but their arrogance sure fueled the fires.
Destructo6
New member
Post WWII French arrogance and obstinance. They'd been invaded, defeated, and occupied. Their foreign colonies were lost along with their pride.
Rather than letting it go, they insisted that they should re-assume their colonial possessions. At the same time 1million Soviet troops remained in Europe.
The US wanted to rearm German troops, just in case the Soviets tried to take the rest of the spoils. France resisted until the US agreed to support their efforts in their colonies. At first, we shipped aid (bullets and beans) to France, who then shipped to Indochina. Later, it went direct. By 1950, the US was footing the bill for the vast majority of France's efforts there.
The French link is direct.
Now, you can reasonably argue that LBJ could have not committed combat troops after his landslide 1964 election ("Choosing War" by Logevall), but the French connection is undeniable.
The French are also responsible for most of the body odor over the last 1000+ years and still going strong.
Misplaced blame
Referring to the Treaty of Versailles and possible causes of WWII, we are told:
"Exactly why I think he may have something. France may not have started it,,but their [sic] arrogance sure fueled the fires."
Are you seriously suggesting that France, and France alone, signed - or even dictated the terms of - the Treaty of Versaille? Get real.
It may have escaped your notice, but there were other countries involved - hence the designation "WORLD War I." Belgium was invaded, there was fighting in Italy and Britain was bombed. All three wanted reparations.
Germany's allies, Turkey and Austria-Hungary principally, had to be dealt with, along with the lesser supporters of the Triple Alliance. There were territories in the Middle East, China and the Pacific Rim to be allocated. In what way, shape, manner or form could France, and France alone, be responsible for a treaty addressing all of the above?
Did the Treaty of Versailles create many of the conditions that led to the rise of Hitler and the events leading to WWII? Quite probably, especially the reparations, loss of the Sudatenland and Danzig, and occupation of the Ruhr. Did France unilaterally impose those terms while its allies, Great Britain, Belgium, Japan and the US (to name the more obvious countries) sat idly by?
Not a chance.
Try actually READING some history before trying to discuss it......
Referring to the Treaty of Versailles and possible causes of WWII, we are told:
"Exactly why I think he may have something. France may not have started it,,but their [sic] arrogance sure fueled the fires."
Are you seriously suggesting that France, and France alone, signed - or even dictated the terms of - the Treaty of Versaille? Get real.
It may have escaped your notice, but there were other countries involved - hence the designation "WORLD War I." Belgium was invaded, there was fighting in Italy and Britain was bombed. All three wanted reparations.
Germany's allies, Turkey and Austria-Hungary principally, had to be dealt with, along with the lesser supporters of the Triple Alliance. There were territories in the Middle East, China and the Pacific Rim to be allocated. In what way, shape, manner or form could France, and France alone, be responsible for a treaty addressing all of the above?
Did the Treaty of Versailles create many of the conditions that led to the rise of Hitler and the events leading to WWII? Quite probably, especially the reparations, loss of the Sudatenland and Danzig, and occupation of the Ruhr. Did France unilaterally impose those terms while its allies, Great Britain, Belgium, Japan and the US (to name the more obvious countries) sat idly by?
Not a chance.
Try actually READING some history before trying to discuss it......
Double Naught Spy
New member
Where did I get the list? Somewhere on the internet. I then went war by war checking to see who the combatants were and who started the fight. I could not always find who started, but if France wasn't listed, then it didn't matter.
Remember, the key here is if France STARTED the wars. Obviously, they have not started most of the wars. They may have been involved in many, no doubt, but involvement does not necessarily equate with being the starter.
Let's see...
Yes, France or kingdoms in France were involved in the Crusades, but I can't find where it says they started the Crusades.
Norman Conquest - 1066, a French connection, but not started by France per se, but by William the Conquerer, Duke of Normandy, but not King of France.
I am fairly certain France was involved in the start of the French Civil War.
The Franco Prussian War has France's name, but once again, this was an invasion by Germany in 1870 and not started by France.
k_dawg and others, America did fight its Vietnam War, but this was a separate incident from the two wars involving France and the Vietnamese. These wars were separated by the invasion of Japan during WWII. France did not start the war for us and we didn't go into 'Nam to save the French. AND depending on the outlook of the situation, the French did not start the war. The war started as a result of an uprising in French Colonial Vietnam by the Vietnamese who wished to overthrow the French for control of their own territories.
So Hal, just what major wars do you and your friend think that France started? I wasn't being unfair. You thought your friend had a valid point that France started ALL the major wars of the last 1000 years, but offered ZERO proof.
We can narrow this down quite easily. We know that while France has been involved in many wars, they didn't actually start all or most of the major wars of the last 1000 years, but can somebody actually name wars STARTED by specifically by France? I offered up the French Civil War. What do you have to offer?
Remember, the key here is if France STARTED the wars. Obviously, they have not started most of the wars. They may have been involved in many, no doubt, but involvement does not necessarily equate with being the starter.
Let's see...
Yes, France or kingdoms in France were involved in the Crusades, but I can't find where it says they started the Crusades.
Norman Conquest - 1066, a French connection, but not started by France per se, but by William the Conquerer, Duke of Normandy, but not King of France.
I am fairly certain France was involved in the start of the French Civil War.
The Franco Prussian War has France's name, but once again, this was an invasion by Germany in 1870 and not started by France.
k_dawg and others, America did fight its Vietnam War, but this was a separate incident from the two wars involving France and the Vietnamese. These wars were separated by the invasion of Japan during WWII. France did not start the war for us and we didn't go into 'Nam to save the French. AND depending on the outlook of the situation, the French did not start the war. The war started as a result of an uprising in French Colonial Vietnam by the Vietnamese who wished to overthrow the French for control of their own territories.
So Hal, just what major wars do you and your friend think that France started? I wasn't being unfair. You thought your friend had a valid point that France started ALL the major wars of the last 1000 years, but offered ZERO proof.
We can narrow this down quite easily. We know that while France has been involved in many wars, they didn't actually start all or most of the major wars of the last 1000 years, but can somebody actually name wars STARTED by specifically by France? I offered up the French Civil War. What do you have to offer?