Has Anyone Here NEVER Filled Out a Form 4473?

T

TheBluesMan

Moderator Emeritus
This may be hypothetical for most members, but perhaps not. I would imagine that there are a few members that have never filled out a 4473 form (NICS background check). Let us assume that the buyer has absolutely no criminal record whatsoever. What I am wondering is this:

What are the pros and cons of owning firearms that have all been bought in a private sale, or prior to the NICS check?.

And...

If you had never had to undergo a background check to buy a firearm, would it bother you to start now, or would you stick to private sales?

-Dave


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
What are the pros and cons of owning firearms that have all been bought in a private
sale, or prior to the NICS check?.

Private sell: No paper work, the gov doesn't know you own the weapon.

NIC: The gov does know you own the weapon.

I've filled out the 4473 many times and so the gov has me cold. In the state I live in the state cops keep records of handgun purchases for five years and if the background checks at gun show measure passes the record keeping will expand to include rifles and shotguns.

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"
 
Brett Bellmore, You're smart and I wish I could have foreseen this ten years ago.

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"
 
The downside is that this SERIOUSLY reduces the selection of firearms available to me, particularly newer ones. I really drool over some stuff I'd be very hard put to find on the private market.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Once I decided to quit the computer field after 18 years, I went to gunsmithing school. ATF records were checked before I was allowed entry to school and ATF was notified after I graduated, so no, it really doesn't make any difference to me at all. My name's on the 'big list' of people they will scoop up at the first sign of trouble.
 
I guess that is the whole point, Wallew. For someone like me who is a member of: NRA, GOA, SAS, KABA, and OFCC; I figure that my name is on at least a couple of the gov's "Big" lists. :(

Would there be a good reason for someone like me to keep off of the 4473 list? Does it really matter?
 
Maybe I'm confrontational and anti-authoritarian by nature, but I think it's a good thing that the government knows that every few minutes, somewhere in this great land of ours, yet another free citizen has purchased a hard-to-find, unrecoverable gun.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 25, 2000).]
 
For years after entering law enforcement, I use to "student" as my occupation. We'd laugh and hope the gubmint would worry why a student would buy a gun. Geez, I really was a student but only part time.
 
As I have had class III stuff for over 20 years, it doesn’t matter how many 4473’s that I have to fill out. Include a DoD clearance, CHL, and my info has been on the “A” list for some time.

Skyhawk
 
Well, I've been an outspoken political activist since the '70's, a member of the NRA, the Libertarian party, the GOA, and a few others as well, so I'm pretty sure I'm on any lists. But I don't mean for them to know whether or not they got everything, if the day does come that they show up at my door.

And if a SWAT team does show up at my door, it'll be "Yes, sir. No, sir. Here's where I keep them, sir. Any others? No." Of course, Swat teams don't wear body armor 24/7, do they? ;)

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Having also owned class III's, being a long-time NRA member and having written some pretty scathing letters to my representatives, it's pretty certain that they've got my number.

I'd love to buy privately all the time, but when I go to a gun show it's usually to find a specific model. Only once have I had that happen in a private sale.

As long as we're talking 4473's, a shop where I've bought lots of guns changed the name of their store and, I've heard, also changed their FFL name. Does that mean the BATF now has all the old 4473's?

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
I've bought both privately and via the NIC's check. Does'nt bother me as previously you still had the ATF form.

Past DOD clearance, credit card purchases, NRA member, donations via check and letters in support of RKBA to various legislators, governor, senators, etc., already have me listed somewhere.

Privately is nice as sometimes you get a better deal on collectibles anyway. Sometimes it's just a person(s) selling grandpa's estate. Of course we will most likely have NIC's on that too after election day. Ammendment 22 in CO. Wherever 3 or more gather to sell/trade guns, is considered a gun show.
 
Monkeyleg poses a very good question. Prior to NICS the 4473 and the info on it stayed with your FFL dealer. With NICS in place who knows. I really would love to know what happens to the information on the forms when the BATF picks them up after a FFL has not been renewed. The private information that was supposed to be between you and your merchant and illegal for the GOVERNMENT to record is now held in safe storage?
WTH I'm on a bunch of folks lists!


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"The harshest tyranny is that which is under the protection of legality and the banner of justice." Montesquieu
 
I'd bet there has been lot's of "STRAW PURCHASE'S out there that the G-men don't
know about? :p Under federal and state statues, that's illegal; but I guess the
old saying of "What they don't know, won't
hurt 'em" is true is some respect's, :) :) :D

Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Everybody needs a couple of legal but non-papered guns set aside in a safe place with ammo and etc. You might be the recipient of a restraining order or a baseless felony arrest, a house fire, all kinds of tragedies.

Just having a gun somewhere might be the most important thing in your life. If not, pass it on to the next generation.

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ChuteTheMallGawdSortaMount
 
Around here, a used gun from a private party can go for a new price because there is no paperwork involved.
 
HankL: What happens to the forms when a dealer goes out of business? Simple: The BATF collects them and enters them into their illegal gun registration list. Why else do you suppose they've been so hot to drive as many dealers bankrupt as possible?

Yeah, the law says that they can't centeralize dealers' records. The BATF's take on this is that the law doesn't say they can't centeralize FORMER dealers' records.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Bluesman, if you are saying that you have yet to fill out a 4473 or have not done so since NICS then I would recommend against doing it now. I would like to think that the membership in all pro-gun organizations is kept secret from the feds and even a court order for the list would be one Hell of a battle.
On the other hand....and all of this is purely conjecture and opinion on my part;
I do not believe that the government concerns themselves too much with list. I suspect that the ClassIII folks are kept on a closely watched list but beyond that there is none. The NICS system would make "list keeping" much easier now that is can be automated. But any type of list prior to that would be too monumental. There are simply too many guns and many of those have changed hands over the years (in spite of various laws) via rpivate sales for the list to be of any real value.
I have one friend in his fifties that has 400+ guns in his collection and has never bought any gun with "papers". I have another that is currently selling all off his "papered" guns and keeping the paperwork to show if someone ever comes knocking at his door. He still has an impressive collection but none with papers.
Personally I don't worry about it. The odds of a door to door using paperwork of purchases is too remote to pass up deals on guns requiring papers. I do, however, have several that are not papered just in case.
The last two years I have struggeled with the thought of purchasing a classIII though. That is one list that, in my opinion, gives the feds a "key to your front door".

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
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