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Hard to remove 1911 bushing
- Thread starter Okgroups
- Start date
Accuracy %
I am intrigued by these figures about accuracy. I could never put numbers to this topic, got to ask, how did you come up with this? I am in no way doubting this info, just wondering what your references are? With my bushing as tight as functionally possible, am I achieving this 20% accuracy I wonder? Any cost effective tips for improving the other areas? What is headspace/ beyond reach? In case someone else is wondering as well. You certainly surpass my knowledge. Thanks for the tips everyone.
I am intrigued by these figures about accuracy. I could never put numbers to this topic, got to ask, how did you come up with this? I am in no way doubting this info, just wondering what your references are? With my bushing as tight as functionally possible, am I achieving this 20% accuracy I wonder? Any cost effective tips for improving the other areas? What is headspace/ beyond reach? In case someone else is wondering as well. You certainly surpass my knowledge. Thanks for the tips everyone.
DAVID NANCARROW
New member
Those figures sound similar to what Jerry Kuhnhausen came up with in his 1911 gunsmithing book series if I recall correctly.
Jerry also broke it down further by listing user assistive improvements, the primary being a good trigger job and good sights. Makes sense to me, anyway. Pretty hard to get good grouping when your trigger is a crunchinticker with a hard and variable release and your sights are too small to use effectively.
Jerry also broke it down further by listing user assistive improvements, the primary being a good trigger job and good sights. Makes sense to me, anyway. Pretty hard to get good grouping when your trigger is a crunchinticker with a hard and variable release and your sights are too small to use effectively.
Use the method shown in the video posted by WVSig earlier in this thread.
Use it on all guns whether a tight bushing fit or not.
The method shown is the "new" method as distinct from the original method. The "new" method was developed after the Colt Series 70 guns were introduced with their collect bushings and was used so as not to torque the fingers of the bushings. Also works on guns with very tight bushings.
tipoc
I am intrigued by these figures about accuracy. I could never put numbers to this topic, got to ask, how did you come up with this?
Yes, Jerry Kuhnhausen. Some people think he is out dated, but then I ask, is the M1911 out dated?
polyphemus
New member
A:No.I ask, is the M1911 out dated?
The design elegance and versatile functionality will keep it in production long
after many current models have faded into obsolecence.
Accuracy is in the hands of the beholder.
The collet bushings failed due to metal fatigue at the flex point.There has to be
barrel to bushing clearance that's how the pistol works.The nominal barrel bushing clearance is .001" and bushing to slide .003".The bushing is held with
leveraged force by the reaction spring plug so there is insignificant play during firing.The confusion seems to be between proper fit and tightness and as
long as people are willing to pay for tight in the belief that it means accurate
that's what they'll get even if causes all kinds of failures.
DAVID NANCARROW
New member
Outdated?
When you realize that everything is a compromise, then you get closer to the truth.
The 1911 design still has IMO one of the best, tunable triggers ever designed.
Its one of the few large service automatics which can be carried concealed successfully.
The 45 ACP is still a pretty effective cartridge with which to defend yourself with, the knowledge that no pistol cartridge really has the power to be a "man stopper" in every instance.
The controls are in good locations, and it is a pretty easy pistol design to shoot well with it being a large bore.
No, its not plastic nor is it lightweight in its original form.
No, it doesn't hold a box of ammo in the magazine.
No, its not the easiest weapon to detail strip.
Properly set up and made with good materials, it still holds its own against anything designed today.
When you realize that everything is a compromise, then you get closer to the truth.
The 1911 design still has IMO one of the best, tunable triggers ever designed.
Its one of the few large service automatics which can be carried concealed successfully.
The 45 ACP is still a pretty effective cartridge with which to defend yourself with, the knowledge that no pistol cartridge really has the power to be a "man stopper" in every instance.
The controls are in good locations, and it is a pretty easy pistol design to shoot well with it being a large bore.
No, its not plastic nor is it lightweight in its original form.
No, it doesn't hold a box of ammo in the magazine.
No, its not the easiest weapon to detail strip.
Properly set up and made with good materials, it still holds its own against anything designed today.
Tight .00X "
Quote:the bushing has to be loose enough to allow the barrel to move freely. If it does not, the barrel can actually bend or distort/break the bushing and hurt accuracy.
Will the gun cycle if it is too tight? If it cycles I think it is perfect at 0.001". The bushing is tapered inside to accommodate the tilting barrel Is it not? Competition 1911's strive for .001" in most moving areas says the pistolsmiths at BSR group.
Quote:the bushing has to be loose enough to allow the barrel to move freely. If it does not, the barrel can actually bend or distort/break the bushing and hurt accuracy.
Will the gun cycle if it is too tight? If it cycles I think it is perfect at 0.001". The bushing is tapered inside to accommodate the tilting barrel Is it not? Competition 1911's strive for .001" in most moving areas says the pistolsmiths at BSR group.
DAVID NANCARROW
New member
That a barrel bushing has to fit loosely in the slide in order for the pistol to function is a fallacy.
That a barrel bushing needs extra clearance in the barrel fit is also a fallacy.
Bulls-eye guns for one have proven both of the above to be false.
The trick is to fit the parts CORRECTLY so that there is minimal to no play at lockup. Some clearance between the barrel and the bushing while out of battery is good.
Lockup of the barrel at both ends is required for best accuracy.
That means, in addition to the barrel bushing being a good fit that the barrel feet make proper contact on the slide stop pin.
The barrel lugs make proper contact with the slide lugs.
The barrel hood makes proper contact with the slide.
I recently fit an oversized barrel bushing to my Government Model, and while it took some patience and some elbow grease, its doable with some basic tools and materials.
EGW for example makes barrel bushings to order and was my starting point.
I measured the inside diameter of the slide where the bushing fits and then the outside diameter of the barrel. EGW makes it pretty easy and the part is good quality and not expensive for what you get. They have what is known as an Angle Bore bushing-the bushing bore is machined at an angle to prevent barrel flex which will hurt accuracy and ultimately destroy the bushing. It is clearanced at the bottom rear part of the bushing to allow good function. The barrel bushing is actually locked to the slide by the tab on the bushing itself. The spring cup keeps the bushing from rotating by fitting into the feet of the bushing at the lower end.
I would advise you to measure the barrel O.D. at the muzzle because that is where the barrel locks up when in battery.
Because I ordered the bushing with zero play in both dimensions, the bushing was wrench tight in the slide. I made some lapping compound mixed with oil and worked the bushing into the slide so that while there is no detectable play in the bushing to slide fit, I can rotate the bushing with my hand.
I then coated the barrel and the inside of the bushing with lapping compound and worked it in until the operation was smooth when I cycled the slide.
Was it worth the effort? I think it was, and after the results I got from it, I ordered another one for my Gold Cup Trophy Match, which has about 50K rounds through it and the bushing is showing about .008" total clearance. About 50/50 between the slide, bushing and barrel. The I.D. of the slide was .701" while the barrel is .580", both fairly common dimensions.
My Government Model has over 4K rounds through it with no failures or fractures of any sort, and probably because of my eyes more than anything else, will run nearly equal groups with my Trophy Match out to 20 or so yards. Beyond that, the TM looks better. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I tried to hit the wife's 100 yard rifle target. Wasn't the easiest with those smaller fixed sights, but I did manage to put a magazine full of semi wadcutters on her 12x12 inch target which surprised me.
If your ID/OD dimensions are outside of what EGW normally makes, you can have them make a custom sized barrel bushing for you. Their advertised wait time on custom parts are about 21 days, give or take.
I think you could find other makers who will have or make barrel bushings for your application. The reason I went to EGW is for one, George Smith-the owner, is good at what he does and has a good reputation. His parts are, at least to me, a bargain for what you get.
That a barrel bushing needs extra clearance in the barrel fit is also a fallacy.
Bulls-eye guns for one have proven both of the above to be false.
The trick is to fit the parts CORRECTLY so that there is minimal to no play at lockup. Some clearance between the barrel and the bushing while out of battery is good.
Lockup of the barrel at both ends is required for best accuracy.
That means, in addition to the barrel bushing being a good fit that the barrel feet make proper contact on the slide stop pin.
The barrel lugs make proper contact with the slide lugs.
The barrel hood makes proper contact with the slide.
I recently fit an oversized barrel bushing to my Government Model, and while it took some patience and some elbow grease, its doable with some basic tools and materials.
EGW for example makes barrel bushings to order and was my starting point.
I measured the inside diameter of the slide where the bushing fits and then the outside diameter of the barrel. EGW makes it pretty easy and the part is good quality and not expensive for what you get. They have what is known as an Angle Bore bushing-the bushing bore is machined at an angle to prevent barrel flex which will hurt accuracy and ultimately destroy the bushing. It is clearanced at the bottom rear part of the bushing to allow good function. The barrel bushing is actually locked to the slide by the tab on the bushing itself. The spring cup keeps the bushing from rotating by fitting into the feet of the bushing at the lower end.
I would advise you to measure the barrel O.D. at the muzzle because that is where the barrel locks up when in battery.
Because I ordered the bushing with zero play in both dimensions, the bushing was wrench tight in the slide. I made some lapping compound mixed with oil and worked the bushing into the slide so that while there is no detectable play in the bushing to slide fit, I can rotate the bushing with my hand.
I then coated the barrel and the inside of the bushing with lapping compound and worked it in until the operation was smooth when I cycled the slide.
Was it worth the effort? I think it was, and after the results I got from it, I ordered another one for my Gold Cup Trophy Match, which has about 50K rounds through it and the bushing is showing about .008" total clearance. About 50/50 between the slide, bushing and barrel. The I.D. of the slide was .701" while the barrel is .580", both fairly common dimensions.
My Government Model has over 4K rounds through it with no failures or fractures of any sort, and probably because of my eyes more than anything else, will run nearly equal groups with my Trophy Match out to 20 or so yards. Beyond that, the TM looks better. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I tried to hit the wife's 100 yard rifle target. Wasn't the easiest with those smaller fixed sights, but I did manage to put a magazine full of semi wadcutters on her 12x12 inch target which surprised me.
If your ID/OD dimensions are outside of what EGW normally makes, you can have them make a custom sized barrel bushing for you. Their advertised wait time on custom parts are about 21 days, give or take.
I think you could find other makers who will have or make barrel bushings for your application. The reason I went to EGW is for one, George Smith-the owner, is good at what he does and has a good reputation. His parts are, at least to me, a bargain for what you get.
Last edited:
polyphemus
New member
It is not tapered,it is rather stepped to allow the barrel to swing.The bushing is tapered inside to accommodate the tilting barrel Is it not?
Nominally .580" ID at the edge over .250" in length and then .610" ID all the way to the back.
Manufacturer recommends tapping out
How can they recommend the slide hammer method when it causes damage? I found all kinds of dents and dings where the barrel feet slam against the slide. I wonder if there are any dinged up les Baer owners that have flashlights could tell me I'm not alone?
How can they recommend the slide hammer method when it causes damage? I found all kinds of dents and dings where the barrel feet slam against the slide. I wonder if there are any dinged up les Baer owners that have flashlights could tell me I'm not alone?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Dents and dings where? I can't envision anywhere that the barrel feet could even contact the slide, except for sliding contact along the sides.Okgroups said:How can they recommend the slide hammer method when it causes damage? I found all kinds of dents and dings where the barrel feet slam against the slide. I wonder if there are any dinged up les Baer owners that have flashlights could tell me I'm not alone?
That said, I consider any bushing that needs to be tapped out to be too tight.
I am currently into a build and purchased a drop in Storm Lake with matched bushing. Luckily I didn't have to do any fitting there, but the bushing is so tight it must be tapped out with the barrel. I have carry 1911s already so I'm okay with this expensive project piece and it's requirement of disassembly tools.