Hard to extract reloads....need some wisdom
- Thread starter Wildernesshunter
- Start date
Wildernesshunter
New member
I annealed the brass because I wanted to. First set of brass I have ever done. This afternoon I watched a couple of instructional videos on annealing and I am confident I did it right.
Yes, the bullets are correct. I weighed several of them, just to check.
By the way, if I could have stabilized the 150gr bullets, that's all I would be shooting.....but the top ballistician from Howa corresponded with me and doubted I would ever get the bullets highly accurate and recommended I move to the 123gr bullets.
No, I don't have any brass that isn't annealed and trimmed. I have 120 pieces and I did them all.
I'm just going to dial back the powder load. Going from 31gr to 28-29gr shouldn't cost me much velocity.
Yes, the bullets are correct. I weighed several of them, just to check.
By the way, if I could have stabilized the 150gr bullets, that's all I would be shooting.....but the top ballistician from Howa corresponded with me and doubted I would ever get the bullets highly accurate and recommended I move to the 123gr bullets.
No, I don't have any brass that isn't annealed and trimmed. I have 120 pieces and I did them all.
I'm just going to dial back the powder load. Going from 31gr to 28-29gr shouldn't cost me much velocity.
Nvreloader
New member
WH
Have you slugged the bore diameter of your rifle?
Do you know the bore diameter?
In post #4 you have posted,
"Cases: Winchester
Bullets: Hornady SST 7.62 (.310), 123gr".
Tia,
Don
Have you slugged the bore diameter of your rifle?
Do you know the bore diameter?
In post #4 you have posted,
"Cases: Winchester
Bullets: Hornady SST 7.62 (.310), 123gr".
Tia,
Don
Wildernesshunter
New member
No where does Howa state the bore of the 7.62x39, so I asked via an email to the company, Legacy Sports, a couple months ago. One of their VP's wrote me back and confirmed the barrel is .310.
I asked as I need to confirm before shooting the .311, 150gr bullets.
So yes, it is a .310.....not .308. As you guys probably know, Ruger's Mini30 is actually a .308 barrel.
Wife is at a basketball game tonight, so I slipped out to the reloading bench. I resized, trimmed and loaded the cases that were the issue. I decided to load with 28gr of A2200. I'll try to get to the range in the next 4-5 days and give it a go again.
I asked as I need to confirm before shooting the .311, 150gr bullets.
So yes, it is a .310.....not .308. As you guys probably know, Ruger's Mini30 is actually a .308 barrel.
Wife is at a basketball game tonight, so I slipped out to the reloading bench. I resized, trimmed and loaded the cases that were the issue. I decided to load with 28gr of A2200. I'll try to get to the range in the next 4-5 days and give it a go again.
It would be helpful if you explained your whole annealing process in detail. Like how you kept the heat from conducting down into the body and head area of the cases.
With just the information you have provided, ( there may be factors that you were unaware of, like misreading your scale, and did not post), the logical conclusion is that you screwed up your brass during the annealing process. If it were me, I would consider it a lesson in leaving things alone that you do not understand (or really need to do), and just toss the brass and buy new. Only anneal when the necks begin to crack and/or the brass gets so hard that it "springs back", after sizing and will not hold the bullets.
Note that any fool can produce a "how to" Youtube video and most do. The Videos you watched may have been correct, or done by Bubba who is an "expert" in the metalurgy of handloading inasmuch as he has been doing it a whole three weeks.
To reiterate, there is no reason to ever anneal brass until the symptoms of work-hardening begin to appear.
Why? Dahermit, I am sure you are keeping up, annealing is sweeping the forums, annealing is becoming an all consuming obsession. At one time it only involved 'us casuals, and now
Anyhow, I agree, he should settle on a step sequence when annealing. I believe when and how is more important than jumping into it in a dead run without having to explain rules and factors. I have rules, methods and techniques, and I make every effort to avoid seeming lofty.
F. Guffey
603Country
New member
The problem seems to be the annealing. Park those cases, buy more and use them a few times and skip the annealing step.
If it isn't that, then the OP is indeed loading them too hot. Just because a reloading book gives you a max powder load, that doesn't mean that your rifle can handle that published max load. I've run into that problem before.
If it isn't that, then the OP is indeed loading them too hot. Just because a reloading book gives you a max powder load, that doesn't mean that your rifle can handle that published max load. I've run into that problem before.
Actually, I have not been keeping up. I don't shoot much rifle now (a whole lot of pistol though), but when I did, I shot a whole lot of rounds without ever annealing a bottle necked case..the primer pockets would get loose way before any annealing was likely to be of use. I do understand how the current trend it to anneal to enable a consistent bullet pull, but my target rifle showed no deterioration in accuracy due to the cases not being annealed. The fact that he has a 7.62X39 ( I have one...Ruger M77 Mk.II), suggests that there is little to be gained by agonizing over bullet pull inasmuch as a 7.62x39 has never been considered to a target quality cartridge.
What I did find as a benefit of annealing was when my over-crimped Keith-type .44 Magnum loadings began to get neck splits, the rest of the batch could be saved by annealing the necks. But, in all honesty, the necks on those .44's were being overworked with too much flair and way too much crimp. I am sure I could have gotten away with just a light flare and a light crimp and avoided annealing completely...which I eventually did.
When it comes to annealing, there are too many pitfalls/bad practices that can end up doing more harm than good unless one has the correct equipment, knowledge and uses the correct practices...and too many Youtube videos done by people who do not know what they are doing.
Last edited:
wildernesshunter: One question that had been asked was. What did the head look like after firing. Let me add to that important questions. As a sign of high pressure. 1) What primer did you use. 2) Was a change made? 3) Is the primer flattened? 4) Does the head stamp show distortion from the bolt face. 5) Does the bolt face leave a imprint on the head face.
All of these are signs of over pressure. The new bullet might have a higher value of friction when fired in the barrel.
When you change bullets you should be working up loads.
All of these are signs of over pressure. The new bullet might have a higher value of friction when fired in the barrel.
When you change bullets you should be working up loads.
The question of why to anneal your brass after 2 loading? We have a lot of information on the firing line sight for reloading. I don't think you are going to find a better sight to learn all the challenges of it. You can even ask questions and get lancers. So why not try your hand in annealing and see how it comes out. It is a challenge isn't it. I have tried it and I may try it again some day. You are never too old to learn. All though some people are afraid to try some thing new. I do believe handloaders have some of Thomas Edison, Henry Ford and You name em in us.
In answer to the annealing question.
After 10 loadings my bullets were seating really hard.
After 15 the necks were splitting.
Annealing done right correct both of those. Even done wrong (as long as you don't overheat the case) it helps some of that.
I hate to keep buying new brass or once fired.
The only way I see no impact is they are not reloading much, could be wrong.
Pistol no, rifle yes.
After 10 loadings my bullets were seating really hard.
After 15 the necks were splitting.
Annealing done right correct both of those. Even done wrong (as long as you don't overheat the case) it helps some of that.
I hate to keep buying new brass or once fired.
The only way I see no impact is they are not reloading much, could be wrong.
Pistol no, rifle yes.
Read your manual again. 30.0 grains of Accurate 2200 is over Max for a 123 grain bullet. 29.4(Compressed) is the current max according to Accurate's site, so it's not by much. Very likely to be just the normal variations in manuals. And the velocities in your manual only apply to the barrel length used by Accurate. 21" on their site.
You also didn't give the OAL length you used.
In any case, hard extractions and bolt opening indicate excessive pressure and bad headspace. Highly unlikely to be headspace on a commercial hunting rifle.
"...Ruger's Mini-30 is actually a .308 barrel..." Hasn't been for eons now. Ruger put the correct diameter barrel on Mini's years ago when proper bullet diameters were available.
Whether you anneal or not isn't an issue. Doesn't do anything to pressures. However, it's not something you need to do every time. Or even just because you wanted to. You anneal when you get one cracked case.
Trimming isn't necessary unless the cases get longer than the max case length given in your manual. Doesn't hurt anything if you do either, Just remember to chamfer and deburr if you do trim.
Mind you, your 1.540" is too long. 1.528” is the max case length for 7.62 x 39. That is very likely the cause of your issues.
You also didn't give the OAL length you used.
In any case, hard extractions and bolt opening indicate excessive pressure and bad headspace. Highly unlikely to be headspace on a commercial hunting rifle.
"...Ruger's Mini-30 is actually a .308 barrel..." Hasn't been for eons now. Ruger put the correct diameter barrel on Mini's years ago when proper bullet diameters were available.
Whether you anneal or not isn't an issue. Doesn't do anything to pressures. However, it's not something you need to do every time. Or even just because you wanted to. You anneal when you get one cracked case.
Trimming isn't necessary unless the cases get longer than the max case length given in your manual. Doesn't hurt anything if you do either, Just remember to chamfer and deburr if you do trim.
Mind you, your 1.540" is too long. 1.528” is the max case length for 7.62 x 39. That is very likely the cause of your issues.
Whew...cut the powder charge, pronto, and see what you get. If you're 15% over, you are in dangerous territory.
Too, in spite of your phone call to Howa regarding groove dia. for the rifle....if you have a .308" groove dia. and you are using .310" dia. bullets, you're upping the pressure curve dramatically. YOU can check the bore dia. by tapping a round lead sinker down the bore with a suitable steel or brass rod. I'd check it before I shot any more of those .310" bullets. HTH's Rod