Hard cast vs hollow points

H

Haycreek

New member
Gold Dot ammo is my first choice ammo for defense purposes. --- however, a good hard cast round nose flat point bullet has excellent penetration and the flat metplate on hard cast bullets does a number on wild game such as wild hogs. The hollow points that we have today are very good, but the manufactures spend a lot of money on advertising hype to convince the buying public. After you look at hard cast flat nosed bullets performance on wild hogs, I wonder why a good round nosed flat point bullet wouldn't be a good carry choice. Some pistols will feed a RNFP hard cast more reliable than a Gold Dot or others. If you have used RNFP for hunting, I would like to hear your comments, as well as everyone else.
 
I live in the "sticks" and like to shoot through my target - two or four legs. This is a great example, a .38 special standard pressure 150 grain hard cast wadcutter from Buffalo Bore at 900 fps shooting though 2 feet of ballistic gelatin from a 1 7/8" S&W J Frame. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo...r standard pressure Hard Cast Wad Cutter.html
At the Linebaugh "Penetration Seminars" the Hard cast LBT bullets shoot though feet of bone and wet paper. No doubt the meplat will destroy much more than expected and penetrare much more than expected. I use hard cast bullets with the largest meplat possible for all purposes and as a bonus it's easier on your barrel.
 
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I wonder why a good round nosed flat point bullet wouldn't be a good carry choice. Some pistols will feed a RNFP hard cast more reliable than a Gold Dot or others
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The only hard cast lead that I have seen in off the shelf ammo is in cowboy loads.
There has been many a pro & con discussion about carrying your own re-loads. A search will explain. Answering your question yes they are a devastating round as well as wad cutters. Tuff to find off the shelf
 
I won't go into the reloads vs factory ammo. I use factory ammo for CCW.
But, I hear what your saying ,however I prefer SWC to RNFP and for soft targets I prefer swaged or softer cast bullets.
I really wish Hornady would see fit to load their SWC HP in 38 and 44 special.
 
If you have used RNFP for hunting, I would like to hear your comments, as well as everyone else.
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+1, as I have a very accurate RNFP load for my BH .44 Special.

Have shot many deer with hard cast LSWC since switching from HP's. Lots more blood loss with 2 holes gauranteed. The punched holes leak a lot more than the poked ones.
 
Hard cast vs hollowpoints

I reload my own, and have a wide selection of bullets. So far as the factory only for self defense, I believe if it is a justifiable shooting in a life threating situation, hand loads won't make a difference. Just don't be trigger happy. some say you will be sued if you use handloads, you will likely be sued anyway -- but no one has came up with a specific case that just because some one used handloads. And yes, I use Gold Dots, but, I occasionally may use handloads also.
 
I'm thinking if I get this clone Commander like I want it most of the time it will have laser cast 200 gr .45 swc's in it.
i think they would be fine for everything from cans to falling plates to social occasions.One load,one sight setting,one reliability factor.
In a courtroom.just my way of looking at it,a cast swc might seem to carry less intent than The Ultimo Hollow Bomb serrated flesh ripper load,not that it matters much.
 
one of the only reasons i can think of for using hp over hard cast is to limit penetration.

in a crowded urban setting too much over penetration can be bad.
 
Most shot animals attempt to flee, a few more aggressive ones might pursue you (hogs, bears, etc.).

The same applies to two logged targets.

The ones you need to stop NOW have shown an aggressive tendency already.
 
You guys must be mind readers, because I've been considering this very subject. This is very thought provoking. Thanks, Lyle

" If you can't shoot faster than the other guy; Shoot straighter".- Chic Gaylord
 
My 148gr cast lead double ended wadcutter reloads are in my J frame Smith next to my bed with 3.5gr of Bullseye powder in them.
I'm an avid target shooter and reloader and I can reload them for what good 22 ammo costs.

I feel a justifiable shooting is a justifiable shooting........no matter what ammo was in the gun.

Lawyers may have a different opinion however?
 
I'm a lawyer and I agree with you a good shoot is a good shoot. BTW I did shoot some one gallon water jugs with JHPs and a 250 grain RNFP .45 Colt for SASS shooting from Ten-X and I only had four gallons left for the "Cowboy" round. I had hoped to capture the bullet but it blew through all four easily. I would estimate it would penetrate well over two feet. The JHP from a hand gun typically will not penetrate three gallon jugs if they open up. Usually will go through two and stop in third with hand gun ammunition. Here are some good test results
Guns and Optics dated 11-12-09 with .45-70 http://gunsandoptics.blogspot.com/2009/11/45-70-penetration-and-expansion-bullet.html
and from the site designed around one gallon jugs - Box O'Truth # 3 http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot19.htm
You can see that for the "lowly" .45 Colt "Cowboy" round 250 RNFP to blow through 4 gallon jugs is amazing. Should have set up the chronograph but I don't believe it was going more than 850 fps.
 
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JHP's are better for two-legged self defense. Deeper penetrating bullets are preferred for hunting because most game animals are quadripeds. Because of their anatomy, less penetration is required to reach the vitals of an erect biped (a human) than a quadriped of equal or greater size. Also, animals often become adrenalized much more than humans do so an exit wound to facilitate blood loss is often necessary for relatively rapid incapacitation.
 
I gave up on fancy HP's years ago. Aside from the superior qualities of the SWC's & hardcast, ironically, they also cost a tenth or less than the jacketed bullets meaning you should be able to shoot so many of them that there is no question where they print. This reduces the chances for collateral damage from misses, which is a big concern. Don't be fooled into thinking that over-penetration is a danger. Penetration is your friend! Missing is the danger.
 
Edward429451
I gave up on fancy HP's years ago. Aside from the superior qualities of the SWC's & hardcast, ironically, they also cost a tenth or less than the jacketed bullets meaning you should be able to shoot so many of them that there is no question where they print. This reduces the chances for collateral damage from misses, which is a big concern. Don't be fooled into thinking that over-penetration is a danger. Penetration is your friend! Missing is the danger.
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^ +1 ^
Excellent post.
 
All my revolvers carry handloaded LSWC's whether for defense or hunting. My autos do carry HP's though. Revolvers see much more use, the autos kinda lay around neglected.
 
for people

I am not aware of any agency currently exploiting the advantages of the wide-meplat cast bullet for their duty load.

I am aware of a few using the 155g, and 124--127g .355" HP, the 125g .357" HP, the 135g, 155g, and 165g .400" HP, and the 230g .451" HP.
Successfully.....
 
The only hard cast lead that I have seen in off the shelf ammo is in cowboy loads.
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Federal makes a hardcast load called Castcore for revolvers. I'm not sure about Corbon. I think they use jacketed bullets in their loads. Other than that you are stuck with something like Buffalo Bore or Garrett unless you reload.
 
It's an interesting question.

The reason law enforcement is successful with HP's is that's all they carry. If all they carried were Keith bullets, we'd be saying how much better Keith style bullets are (frankly, they are better).

It may not be PC to say, but if you're going to carry a handgun for defense you should ask yourself what load you'd use to hunt 200-300 lb. deer or hogs.

A Keith style bullet will do anything a HP will, and many things a HP can't.
 
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