Happened to me, whadda you think?

newarcher

Moderator
Took my family up to Helen GA...a little Suiss remake town in the North Georgia mountains last fall. My wife and daughter (4) stayed in the car parked along side the road (about 150 yards away) in a pullout area while myself and my son (8) went and threw some lines in the river. There were a couple of families 150 yards down the river from me but we were alone in the immediate area and obstructed by bushes from everyone else. The bank was flat next to the river then formed a shelf up to the roadbed level. So more or less when fishing, I had about a three foot rise right behind me that I could sit on. I sat my tacklebox on it between my son and myself.

Well, we were fishing when a pebble rolled down by my foot and I knew I didn't cause it (I thought that maybe my wife had snuck up on me). I turned around and there was a man standing less than four inches from my face (I could have headbutted him in the crotch, that's how close he was). He stopped advancing when I spun around but was continuing to advance up to that point. I instictively spun around and put myself between him and my son as I was assessing the situation. He had a buddy with him that was a few feet away with his back to us looking the other way...in my mind seeming to act as a lookout and watching the traffic. Also during the reaction, I noticed he had his right hand in his pocket near a fairly large clip on knife. I was unarmed but I immediately reached down into my tacklebox and left my hand there. I momentarily forumulated the plan that if he advanced I was going to grab my son and jump into the river and make tracks. He kind of smiled coyly and said "we're just walking around looking". I looked at him and said "well, you best keep right on walking and looking" and maintained eye contact with the closest one. They seemed to lose interest in walking and looking and immediately left.

My wife saw them park in front of her, talk for a minute or so, and get out and walk directly to me, which is odd. There was about 150 yards of river they could have walked along but they chose a direct angle to me. My wife indicated that she didn't think too much about it until they got within a few feet of me and then seemed to switch to extra quiet walking mode. She was in the back seat and couldn't get my daughter out of the way fast enough to honk the horn. She was certain something bad was about to go down.

My assessment is that these fellas were up to no good and I turned around a moment too soon. Now my wife understands why I am armed pretty much everywhere I go. Had I been carrying that day, I would have definitely had my hand on my weapon.

My fault for not being aware of my surroundings but this is a pretty safe place and I was off guard. I am not looking for a small J frame that I don't have to worry too much about....my Kimbers are too nice to possibly dunk in water.

Thoughts?

New
 
I think it's likely they were what they said they were. If the guy in the back was a "lookout" he was looking out right at two witnesses in your car...

Sure, it's possible they were up to no good, but if I had been wanting to walk down by the river and I'd come upon you and you'd behaved that way, I'd have beat feet too. And not because I want to rob people.

BTW, probably not good to go fishing and leave your wife and daughter in the car on the road. That's a lot worse than a KFC parking lot, ya know?

Springmom
 
Well, they were actually in the back of my Tundra that has privacy glass to the guys didn't see them. Also, the place where we were was somewhat closer to the road and the perp was looking up the road from where traffic arrives.

There was no reason to walk up on us like that. They could see us, our equipment, up the river, down the river, nah....they were up to no good.

You don't walk up on someone to within inches without making your presence known.

New
 
So after they left you did they immediately head back to their truck and leave? Did your wife get the license plate?
 
Gee, you think that might have been a good idea, huh?

Yeah, they left and no she didn't get it.

I asked her later if she had sent them! :D

New
 
Ah, so from their point of view, the Tundra was empty. That makes a difference. (lightbulb goes on....;)_

Yeah, they probably were. And yes, this is why it's important to carry all the time. I hunt in the Sam Houston National Forest north of the Houston area, and sometimes hunt, and scout, alone. But I would never, not in a million years, do that unarmed. Hunters are, as a group, some of the nicest, most polite, and friendliest folks on the earth, but it doesn't follow that I will always meet *only* hunters up there.

One day I locked my keys in my truck at the trail head:o and was having to sit and wait until a ranger could get there (it promised to be awhile). Another hunter was loading up his ATV after the morning hunt, and he came over and asked if I needed help. He had one of those gizmos you can push down into the window frame and pop the door open, and he was glad to do that for me. We talked about hunting and the forest, and at some point I had a moment of illumination. I was alone among thousands of acres with one guy that I didn't know from Adam except that I knew for sure he was armed...and I was utterly unafraid, because I knew I could take care of myself. My husband was enormously pleased when I shared that with him later, because I'd always been sort of timid and fearful in situations with strangers, and I realized I was *free*, because I knew I could take care of myself.

It's a critically important thing. You showed good situational awareness. (But next time let your wife come along and watch your back :D)

Springmom
 
Oh yeah, They never knew she was there.

The weirest thing is that we were isolated somewhat between clumps of trees where no one else on the river could see us. If these fellas were looking to see if there was anything biting, they could have chosen any number of people to look at--except they were two families with multiple men in them.

Its possible they weren't up to no good but it was odd that they would just walk up that close..inches...without at least making sure I knew they were there.

New
 
I think they were probably not up to any good. You have to trust your instincts and I think your instinct told you something was wrong.

Hopefully you will use this event to decide it's smart to carry all the time because trouble usually happens when you least expect it.
 
Rather get one of nice guns wet than be without it

Very true. The other option is to have a good but not too expensive "tackle box gun" (other people call 'em truck guns or whatever)...one that you can take to the lake and not be out $800 if it goes to the bottom. The guy to whom I trade my XD-40 for his BHP wanted the XD for a "truck gun"...something he didn't have to worry about getting dinged up or whatever, that would fire reliably pretty much no matter what, etc. You could look at doing something like that...maybe a used revolver.

Stay safe!


Springmom
 
newarcher, . . . you wrote: " . . . my Kimbers are too nice to possibly dunk in water."

Just a personal note, . . . I don't and will never own any gun that is more important than the lives of my wife or son.

If it gets wet, . . . it'll dry. If it gets dirty, . . . I'll clean it. If it gets broken, . . . I'll fix it. If it falls into a 75 foot deep chasm of water in the river, . . . I'll buy a new one.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
@Dwight 55

I totally agree with you. While it would be a shame to sacrifice any of my guns I would do so in a heartbeat if need be. Things can always be replaced if necessary.
 
And there you have it.

They were almost certainly up to no good, and you will probably carry from now on. Glad it turned out well.

Just as an added item for you to think about: If you hadn't turned and caught them sneaking up, there's a pretty good chance they would have thumped you to steal at a minimum your wallet and keys. And once they headed back to steal your truck, they would have ended up with your wife and daughter as well! :eek::eek:

As has been offered: Carry from now on, and make sure your back is being watched.
 
As much as I love my guns, I think I need to be more of the mindset they are tools which can be replaced. There's times where I did the same thing with a nice gun. I didn't pack because I was going someplace where it might have gotten wet or whatnot.

I think this post illustrates the danger in that sort of mindset. Thanks for sharing it. This has really highlighted the need for a "beater gun" that I can just leave in the truck and not have to worry about, nor be sentimentally attached to, like an heirloom gun that's been passed on. The like XD that was mentioned.

I have a used, refinished 1st gen Glock that seems to fit the "beater gun" bill nicely, now that I'm thinking about it....might not want to trade it anymore.
 
truck guns

I like Glocks for my outdoor and pack guns, because of the reliability and weather resistance factor. I am typically out in the woods daily, hiking with a weight vest or mountain biking. When I run into people, they are usually nice, a few jerks (probably just nervous when they see the guy with the shaved head, 70# vest of steel plates and 2 large dogs stomping uphill :eek: ). Every once in a while I run into a pair who are "up to something" like what you describe above. For some reason, out in the woods, these guys seem to be pairs rather than singles, as they often are in an urban environment. They usually don't too close, as the dogs run free most of the time and alert me to what is around - and they are good indicators of the "intent vibe". So, the creeps rarely get very close.

Either that or my weight vest is just ripe. :rolleyes:

It sounds as if you had a good read of “something wrong” - and as de Becker warns in The Gift of Fear, we need to listen to these instinctive warning signals rather than reacting with denial.

Boundaries are key in assessing situations like this. You keyed on the fact that one of the guys violated normal boundaries in his approach.

The criminal interaction has 5 stages:

1) Intent
2) Interview
3) Positioning
4) Attack
5) Reaction

The predator wants to make sure he can successfully overcome you – hence, the interview and positioning. He does not commit himself to attack before assuring himself of success. Once he is sure of his ability to succeed and he has put you in a position where he can quickly overwhelm you, only then will he attack.

Interview - how the criminal decides if you are safe to attack. "Can I get away with it?" Sounds like he was not only positioning himself to attack, but also checking your awareness about what he was doing and assessing your commitment to defending yourself. When called on it, he tried to hide it under a pretense of normalcy.
Positioning – he doesn’t want to fight you, he wants to take you by surprise and overwhelm you. He wants to get to a place where he can do that. Someone trying to position himself to attack usually removes all doubt that the situation is innocent.

The fact is that many predators simply walk up to their victim. The closer a criminal gets, the greater his ability to overwhelm and control. Four to five feet is generally considered a normal interpersonal boundary – someone getting closer without consent is a pretty good indication that he is up to no good.

What does it sound like they were doing? Sounds like position and the interview to me. What happened? Your response was not what they were looking for. Remember, the criminal is looking for a victim, not a fight. They want someone who reacts with confusion and denial, not awareness and firm response. So, they drift away and look for a better victim.

Now that your wife understands the situation, why not arm her as well? In this situation, sounds as if she could have provided some enfilade fire. :p
 
Hey Richmond,

No crap on the Glock...I had a Baby Glock fo-tay up to about 6 months ago but I sold it to buy an AR15. :D It sucks being broke and having to shuffle guns to get what you need! ;)

I was armed but it was in the truck with the wife. I left it there for two reasons....1) I didn't want to drop it in the drink and 2) my wife and daughter were there.

After that incident with the beautiful young girl in Kansas, I told my wife that I wanted her to get a gun but she wasn't interested. I will keep working on her.

I am not saying the guy was going to stab me, he could have done that before the pebble rolled down because he was already in arm's length. They may have been in the interview stage.

What struck me is this. I have accidentally walked up on people on rivers where I fish. If I surprise them I am like "Oh, hey buddy sorry I didn't see you there while backing out of their area". This guy didn't say "oh man, I didn't mean to scare you I was .......". He just said "Were just walking and looking" and had this evil smile on his face. In fact, had he not surprised me and walked up inside of my line of sight and said that the way he said it, I would have been alarmed.

I have fished a LONG time and never have I had someone approach like that and act that way. Plenty of people have come up to talk fishing and we usually end up exchanging lures.

I am definitely going to get a new piece. In fact, I was looking at an AWESOME Smith and Wesson 357 that weighed less than the Taurus 38's. I could put it in my fron pocket and no one would ever see it. I will probably go with something like a Charter arms to keep expenses down but I will have a J frame sized gun soon for times when I don't want to carry my Kimber.

I am also looking to buy a Kimber CPD Ultra or similar Ultra sized gun for full time carry. Even being big like I am, a full sized 1911 is just too much.

New
 
First of all, I'm glad nothing happened. As everyone else is saying, those guys were certainly up to no good.

I must ask why you left your gun with your wife. Does she know how to shoot and would she know what to do in a poop hits the fan scenario. I would have to guess no since she observed those guys creeping up on you and did nothing. Please don't take that as an attack on your wife, but as constructive criticism on your defensive planning. The gun should be with the person who knows how to use it best. If you are concerned about getting your Kimber wet, get a stainless steel model. Better yet, get yourself another baby Glock "fo-tay".

While I like the idea of truck guns, I don't like the idea od a tackle box gun. The guy was practically on top of you and you may not have had a chance to draw. If the gun was on you, you could move first and then draw. While I know one should never bring a knife to a gun fight, I always have a knife on me. It sure beat going at it unarmed.

Again, I'm glad nothing happened. You are now wiser for it and you can probably use this incident to get your wife to go shooting. :D
 
This is one of those times I'd opt for open carry if I could. The criminals nature is to seek an easy target, being secluded, appearing defenseless, being fixed on what you where doing and being inattentive fit that description. Had they seen you were armed from a distance they likely would have never approached
 
Stephen,

She didn't alert me because she thought like some here that there was nothing to it until it was too late and she saw they were up to no good. She was trying to move my 4 year old out of the way to get to the horn when I spun around.

As for the gun, she is apprehensive about getting a CCW. She would however, not hesitate to shoot someone if their was a threat to her chilren....mama bear syndroome.

I actually didn't have anything in the tackle box other than nippers and hooks. I did the only thing I could think to do...put some space between us, assess the threat, and formulated an escape plan.

Basically, we did everything in the world wrong as a team that day and I am looking for a reasonably priced J frame to carry so that I can have something full time. While I can carry a full sized 1911, it is just a pain.

New
 
Scary

I always assume people are up to no good until they show me they are not, but I'm in the liquor business and have to do deliveries and such in good and bad neighborhoods so I always assume the worst. I always carry, have mace and a knife on me as well as cell phone, and at night a surefire L4 as well. I'm actually kind of glad your wife remined hidden and silent. What if she got out of the truck and the "lookout" made a grab for her? I'm no security expert, and every situation is different, but I think she was safer hidden. She could have called the police from a cell phone inside the truck if you had to jump into the river with your son. I think you should go out and buy a J-Frame or a Glock or Kahr PM9 or any easily concealed firearm to have on you at all times you can do so legally. A tackle box gun is a good idea also. Glad nothing bad happened.
 
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