Handgun tip that helped out my accuracy

G

greyson97

New member
I created a thread a while back
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365263
which had a lot of helpful tips, but i "discovered" a handgun grip that really helped me that i do not believe anyone mentioned.

essentially with a 2 handed pistol grip(for right handers), hold the pistol normally in your right hand.

with your left index finger, wrap it around the front of the trigger guard, and pull the gun to the left. at the same time, with the heel of the palm of the left hand, press it into the grip. With the right hand, wrap your middle, ring and pinky finger around the grip, like normal, but use those fingers to pull the gun to the right, and use the heel of the palm of the right hand, and push it into the grip

So with these two hands, you are causing equal pressure in opposite directions to the left and right.

I found this very helpful in stablizing my sights to the vertical axis of my aiming. Now I just have to work on stablizing my horizontal axis :P

Glock 22 @ 7 yards with an 8" wide target with a 1.5" wide bullseye
6329_952830962030_7939275_54730478_151976_n.jpg


9mm PX4 @ 7 yards with an 8" wide target with a 1.5" wide bullseye
6329_952830977000_7939275_54730481_2411289_n.jpg
 
I've used this especially with a Glock. For some reason I seem to pull right with the Glock. This works quite well to keep me straight, maybe because there is a recurve in the front of the trigger guard which holds that left index finger quite well.
With other guns I just hold my trigger finger further towards the tip and it seems to work. Don't know why that doesn't help with the Glock, maybe that funny trigger safety.
cb
 
with your left index finger, wrap it around the front of the trigger guard,
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Sorry, I don't know of anyone who teaches this method. Index finger wrapped around the grip of the opposing hand... Yeah, I'll go with that.

I sure wouldn't post those 7 yard targets and brag about them. I've seen people who can shoot better goups at 25 yards. I'm not one of them (yet) but I can shoot a whole bunch better than that at 25 feet on a bad day.
 
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orionengnr

glock231.jpg


the austrian army seems to disagree with you there.

92FS_S_maxi.jpg


seems that the italians will disagree with you there as well. oh, and that just happens to be the pistol the US army adopted.

they designed the trigger guard like that for a reason. its there for people who want to have the option of using the trigger guard for that reason.

there is no 100% correct pistol grip for everyone on the planet. just because you don't use it doesnt mean everyone has to do what you do, or do they have to buy the exact same firearms you do just cause you think they are the best.

The purpose of my post was to share a possible hand gun grip that might help people who have trouble trouble lining up their sights.

and i never said i was a perfect marksman. I was posting pics to show how all my shots aligned on the vertical axis.

and people like you are the type that push away potential new shooters.
 
Thanks for sharing. I can't wait to try it out!

I did have a question that I've been thinking about posting but I'll mention it here...I hope you don't mind.

I've started to practice while sitting. My idea was that it might be best to try to get my accuracy and consistency as high as possible while sitting, before adding the standing part to the equation. Your thoughts?
 
Many trigger guards were designed to have the weak side index finger wrapped around. It helps my accuracy.
 
hey jimmy
in my quest to improve my accuracy, everyone says to dry fire like 10 minutes a night, to work on how you hold the gun, and the consistency of the trigger pull, and when you pull the trigger that the sights arent upset by the trigger pull. but i was doing it while sitting down, pointing it at stuff, and it was pretty spot on. but then i stood up and practiced dry firing, and it was completely different. i guesss you can start sitting, and then transition to standing. but dry firing while sitting and dry firing while standing are really different
 
greyson97 said:
...the type that push away potential new shooters.
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If you're new, you might want to consider getting some "hands on" instruction. As an instructor, I haven't found much good to come from wrapping the index finger around the front of the trigger guard. It was a popular grip at one time, but seems to now have fallen largely out of favor.

There's nothing wrong with developing a unique, personal style. But it's a better course to first get a solid grounding in the fundamentals. At that point, one can begin experimenting with personal techniques to see if they can actually improve performance.
 
In the interest of seeking improvement in your shooting, that much vertical dispersion at 7 yards indicates a lack of precision in sight alignment or lack of proper trigger control. There are three basic steps to accuracy with a pistol:
1. Consistent grip to prevent variation in impact point from changes in grip.
2. EXACT/PRECISE sight alignment: Front sight centered in rear sight with top of front sight even with top of rear sight. Hold this sight picture over the center area of target.
3. Press the trigger to fire pistol WITHOUT DISTURBING THE SIGHT ALIGNMENT WITH EACH OTHER OR PLACEMENT ON TARGET.

Items 2 and 3 account for the vast majority of misses and variation in shot placement IMO. Practice executing each shot with these rules in mind. Remember that practice only reinforces the level of precision you employ in that practice. ONLY PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.
 
the weird thing about the PX4 is if i align the front sight with the back sights, the circle isnt full. the bottom part is obscured.

if i line up the sights where I can see the full circle the sight ridge is offset a little. so which do i pick?

and im sure its my trigger control. I still sometimes snatch at the trigger, which I am working to improve
 
Greyson, please don't take this the wrong way but at 7 yards all of your shots should be inside the 9 ring on that target. Even with a service pistol. Now I struggle to get them all that tight with my cowboy guns, but every modern auto I own will do that easily and I use the same targets you do (it's a very nice product I must say).

The grip you describe may have improved your shooting from where you started but I worry that you've traded one set of bad habits for another and I have to agree with the other fellow that I don't know of anyone teaching that grip (and I've had professional training so take that for what it's worth). I also agree that perhaps some professional range instruction might be money very well spent if you're serious about improving.

It always amazes me that people will spend so much time and money trying to improve their golf swings but they seem to balk at getting professional instruction in airplanes and with guns. It's serious business! If you're serious about it pay a pro to spend some time with you. :)

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts!

Best,
Oly
 
greyson97 said:
...if i line up the sights where I can see the full circle the sight ridge is offset a little. so which do i pick?...
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I would simply line up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and center the front sight in the rear sight notch and not pay any attention to the circle. Keep your focus on the front sight.

greyson97 said:
...and im sure its my trigger control...
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Trigger control is indeed the first principle of accurate shooting: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."


By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Don't worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

And as I think about it, I don't think your grip is helping. Let me explain.

First, to achieve the best trigger control, you want your trigger finger to move completely independently. When you press the trigger, you want only the trigger finger to move, and you want it to move straight back. Isolation of the trigger finger is physically difficult. Our fingers tend to operate to some extent together. We're used to gripping things with several fingers. So gripping the gun with the thumb and three fingers, excluding the trigger finger and then applying pressure with the trigger finger and not also affecting the other fingers, is an unnatural action.

IMO, based on my experience, the trigger finger is best isolated for a smooth trigger press if the grip on the gun with the other fingers is simple, reasonably firm and with a uniform distribution of pressure around the grip. The trigger finger is then free to move independently and press smoothly straight back on the trigger. Trying to pull the gun to the strong hand side with the strong hand fingers will thus make it difficult to get the trigger finger to push straight back on the trigger. It will have tendency to also pull to the strong hand side like you're doing with the other fingers on the strong hand.

In addition, if you are pulling to the strong hand side with your strong hand fingers and relying on the weak hand index finger to pull in the opposite direction, you're setting up a gripping technique that will not be adaptable to either strong hand only or weak hand only shooting. Maybe you're not interested in that now. But if you continue with your current approach and later decide that you want to broaden your repertoire of shooting techniques, you'll have difficulty adapting.

For a good discussion of the handgun grip you may want ot watch this Todd Jarrett video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48 .
 
I've tried the index finger on the trigger guard grip, but it seems to weaken my grip, not strengthen it. Almost every shot knocks my finger off the guard and I have to rebuild my grip.:o If you can get it to work, I can see how it would allow for some reduced muzzle jump and quiken your rapid fire a bit.
 
i am not suggesting the finger on the trigger guard to manage recoil

i am suggesting it to be used to pull the trigger guard to the weak side, while your strong hand pulls it to the strong side, therefore helps me steady the front post between the rear sights.

when i dry fire and shoot, this does help ME keep my gun centered. some of you can hold the gun naturally and the front post wont waver too much. but not for me, my hand wavers a lot, and i was using the left hand wrapped around the right hand shooting style, fingers wrapped ontop of each other.

at least now, i fixed one of my problems, verticle axis alignment, and now i have to work on the horizontal plane.

yes, it may be the case im trading off one bad habit for another.

a side note, I recently got a sub compact gun. and due to the size of said gun, recoil is more apparent for them. With my grip, i didn't notice any more recoil than from a normal full sized.

but i am in no way saying finger on the trigger guard reduces recoil.
 
Center front sight in rear sight and align top of front sight even with top of rear sight. If sights are not adjustable type, hold this sight alignment wherever you have to in order for the bullets to hit center of target. It does NOT matter if the sights cover up part of the bullseye or not. With adjustable sights, you can adjust them in order to use a 6 o'clock hold (sights held on bottom edge of bullseye) or center hold (sights held on center of bullseye) and have the bullets hit center of bullseye.
 
Pushing lightly forward with the strong hand and pulling lightly back with the weak hand, white knuckle high on the grip, eye on the front sight and sqeeze the trigger works for me.
 
That is no longer a preferred method of shooting handguns, and I see absolutely no advantage to it.

seems that the italians will disagree with you there as well. oh, and that just happens to be the pistol the US army adopted.

they designed the trigger guard like that for a reason. its there for people who want to have the option of using the trigger guard for that reason.
Click to expand...

I do not know of any instructors or major armed forces still teaching this style; I doubt the Austrians and Italians still do it regardless of the accomodations on their issue pistols.

there is no 100% correct pistol grip for everyone on the planet. just because you don't use it doesnt mean everyone has to do what you do, or do they have to buy the exact same firearms you do just cause you think they are the best.
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No, but there are methods that have proven advantages and there are methods which have little to offer; this is one of the latter.

If you simply want to shoot very accurately then use a standard two hand grip and an isoceles stance like every other competitive shooter.
 
Quote from 45 Shooter:

"If you simply want to shoot very accurately then use a standard two hand grip and an isoceles stance like every other competitive shooter."

Except of course for bullseye shooters.
 
Ditto on what ronto sed. Don't lock either elbow and it will considerably improve your vertical drift..... especially in rapid fire.
 
if people feel so strongly about this, i will try the old way again, although that was the way i started.

and as for my verticle drift, now that Dragon55 mentioned it, and i thought about it, I realized i dont have to hold the gun out as far as possible away from me, and when i bring the gun closer to me, i dont drift up and down as much.
 
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