Handgun stopping power
- Thread starter Polglock
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manta49 said:
That would depend on what you're wearing, the mass of the bullet, and the velocity of the bullet. I personally know 3 people who have been shot by handguns that did not put a hole in them, did not destroy any tissue, and did not have fluids running out.
(I'm a reserve deputy, they were all wearing their vests.)
Handguns have stopping power, I think that too many years of movies and TV have led us to see "stopping power" as in "being struck by lightning" or "zapped with a ray gun", i.e. something instantaneous and totally disabling. As we have discussed in the matter of carrying a 22LR for SD, really not that great a choice but beats feet, fists and foul language and there are enough cases of one shot stops with it that it cannot be dismissed as mere flukes.
wojtekimbier
New member
Utterly confused :x
I am not great at motion physics (my english isn't great either for that matter, sorry)
From what I think I've understood:
-Bullet, when hitting target should "share" it's momentum with it. After hit, the momentum of target and bullet moving together should be equal to momentum they had before hit. If target was not moving before, their momentum after hit should be equal to momentum the bullet had.
-Same applies to bullet and weapon, i.e. together they have the same momentum (0) before and after shot. It means that weapon's momentum is equal to bullet's mommentum, they are just moving in opposite directions. It means that weapon's momentum is equal to momentum that target and bullet have together after hit.
If above is correct(?), why are you considering the amount of kinetic energy when talking about knockdown power? Isn't it irrelevant? To me, momentum is all that matters.
Fast bullet has very high kinetic energy, but it should be a heavy stone with high moment that will have easier time knocking somebody down when thrown.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I am not great at motion physics (my english isn't great either for that matter, sorry)
From what I think I've understood:
-Bullet, when hitting target should "share" it's momentum with it. After hit, the momentum of target and bullet moving together should be equal to momentum they had before hit. If target was not moving before, their momentum after hit should be equal to momentum the bullet had.
-Same applies to bullet and weapon, i.e. together they have the same momentum (0) before and after shot. It means that weapon's momentum is equal to bullet's mommentum, they are just moving in opposite directions. It means that weapon's momentum is equal to momentum that target and bullet have together after hit.
If above is correct(?), why are you considering the amount of kinetic energy when talking about knockdown power? Isn't it irrelevant? To me, momentum is all that matters.
Fast bullet has very high kinetic energy, but it should be a heavy stone with high moment that will have easier time knocking somebody down when thrown.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
You are correct.
I would add that technically there are some variables being ignored, such as air resistance slowing down the bullet, but keeping it simple, yes you are correct.
manta49 said:
Very true statement there. One of them was hit in the back with a 9mm and didn't even know that he'd been shot until he noticed the damage to his vest a couple of days later. He then went back and found the hole in the shirt he was wearing that day. He was diving for cover (smart move!) and between hitting the ground and getting hit by the bullet didn't even notice the impact.
I have shot a lot of deer over the years with a pistol and in several different calibers. My first deer with a pistol was taken with a Colt Trooper in .357 magnum. A lot of people will tell you that the .357 is to light for deer. This one was 35 yards away and facing me. One shot into the center of the chest, he took 3 steps and went down. I could not have asked for better performance from the 158 grain JHP. The performance from the 240 grain JHP bullet out of my T/C Contender in .44 magnum was just as terminal on other deer I have taken.
The type of bullet, its velocity and it's diameter can all play a part in taking down an animal or person. From my experience as a hunter, shot placement trumps all of these variables. If you can't hit the sweet spot, or at least be close to it. It really doesn't matter what type of bullet you are using.
Jim
The type of bullet, its velocity and it's diameter can all play a part in taking down an animal or person. From my experience as a hunter, shot placement trumps all of these variables. If you can't hit the sweet spot, or at least be close to it. It really doesn't matter what type of bullet you are using.
Jim
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In most common calibers it is a myth.... 
Most handgun calibers require a vital shot of some kind or lots of little hole which create a lot of little sources of blood loss in order to stop BGs.
For all the people giving single examples of handguns "stopping" people or animals I would like to remind you.... all poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.
Single examples are not expressions of universal truth.
Most handgun calibers require a vital shot of some kind or lots of little hole which create a lot of little sources of blood loss in order to stop BGs.
For all the people giving single examples of handguns "stopping" people or animals I would like to remind you.... all poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.
Single examples are not expressions of universal truth.
WVsig: said:In most common calibers it is a myth....
Most handgun calibers require a vital shot of some kind or lots of little hole which create a lot of little sources of blood loss in order to stop BGs.
For all the people giving single examples of handguns "stopping" people or animals I would like to remind you.... all poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.
Single examples are not expressions of universal truth.
Agreed. The term "stopping power" is simply an over-simplification meant to encapsulate all of the intangibles and complexities involved in terminal ballistic performance. Ammo manufacturers exploit it (using many definitions) to sell ammo and it serves, in the debate of which caliber or bullet design is "better", as nothing more than an additional distraction since the definitions of "what" is vary almost to a person.
There have been magnificent successes -and miserable failures- with every caliber available. "Stopping power" with anything "handheld" simply does not exist. Artillery, given its tendency to obliterate large structures, probably qualifies.
45_auto: said:
Posted by someone who has never seen what a hand grenade can do. I was clearly talking about handgun calibers, so to take my comment out of context is really kind of juvenile. Hand grenades are also 'handheld' but you seem to have missed that possibility, too.
You must look awfully funny walking around town with that RPG shoved in your waistband.
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Hunter Customs
New member
Using the numbers for the 44mag it has a KO factor of 20.64, the numbers for the 30/30 give it a KO factor of 15.84.
Some feel the higher the KO factor the better, so it looks like the 44 mag would be a better choice.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
Hunter Customs
New member
Although I'm packing a 45 and not a 44 mag this is my thoughts exactly.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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.Well placed shot being the key words here. Last time I was black powder hunting for white tail, I hit a very large buck at 50 yards with a .50 using sabots and .429 hollow point bullets. The exact same bullets used in a handgun. I’m guessing, but I would think that my black powder rifle energy and velocity would be pretty close to a handguns. I hit the buck in the heart. It was dead before it hit the ground. Didn’t move a muscle. Didn’t flinch. Didn’t take a last breath. Didn’t do anything but crumble into a heap. I would think the exact same thing would happen to a human being, even at 50 yards.