My wife has a Beretta Cheetah 85FS .380. Why?....it fits her hand perfectly, its big enough where the recoil is not an issue, she can carry it in a fanny pack holster, and she is dead accurate with it at 15 yds. Its the perfect gun for her for home defense and the type of carry that she prefers. Other guns my be better for other people, but she has found the one for her.
Handgun for my wife
- Thread starter fitfighter81
- Start date
billnourse
New member
S&W Lady Smith. They seem to fit the ladies real well, they are double action revolvers so they are reliable and as simple as it gets, plus with .38Special +P they are adaquate for self defense. In .357 Mag they are more than adaquate.
Autos for self defense don't make much sense to me in the hands of people that are not dedicated to shooting to the point of praticing enough to be proficient in racking, clearing, etc. Autos are more complicated than revolvers, and require considerably more pratice to be really proficient. Also autos are harder to function in the hands of some women due to hand strength. A self defense gun is only as good as your ability to use it.
Bill
Autos for self defense don't make much sense to me in the hands of people that are not dedicated to shooting to the point of praticing enough to be proficient in racking, clearing, etc. Autos are more complicated than revolvers, and require considerably more pratice to be really proficient. Also autos are harder to function in the hands of some women due to hand strength. A self defense gun is only as good as your ability to use it.
Bill
+1 on the training class
Some of us get lucky, and have significant others who are comfortable receiving instruction from us.
That isn't always a given, though. Most professional instructors I've met (flight, SCUBA, shooting, you name it) don't recommend trying to teach a spouse, even for those of us who might be instructors in whatever area.
Even when a spouse makes a good student (or instructor), people are usually more receptive to instruction from a third-party expert. And even when a spouse makes a good student (or instructor), the outside expert may hit points that we would miss.
I've found that my family members do make good students, even for me. But, my mother definitely benefited from some third-party range instruction I bought her as a birthday present. I taught my lady to shoot without problem, but skiing required a couple lessons with the pros.
On a separate note, my mother prefers small autos. My lady prefers a GP100, although what she really likes is an 870.
Hard to predict what people will like. Best to have the individual's input from the get-go.
Some of us get lucky, and have significant others who are comfortable receiving instruction from us.
That isn't always a given, though. Most professional instructors I've met (flight, SCUBA, shooting, you name it) don't recommend trying to teach a spouse, even for those of us who might be instructors in whatever area.
Even when a spouse makes a good student (or instructor), people are usually more receptive to instruction from a third-party expert. And even when a spouse makes a good student (or instructor), the outside expert may hit points that we would miss.
I've found that my family members do make good students, even for me. But, my mother definitely benefited from some third-party range instruction I bought her as a birthday present. I taught my lady to shoot without problem, but skiing required a couple lessons with the pros.
On a separate note, my mother prefers small autos. My lady prefers a GP100, although what she really likes is an 870.
Hard to predict what people will like. Best to have the individual's input from the get-go.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Because most men don't and they know best! Haha!
I have two sets of gun friends, the ones who train and practice. And the ones who have safes full of guns and are ready for action - but haven't shot anything but paper.
The snubby in 357, the Judge, the 12 gauge - all the wife needs! Or the compact 45 1911.
Mulled it over, and decided not to let this one go. The quote above features as many concentrated myths per word as I've ever seen online, and that's saying something. (Please don't take that personally, by the way; it's not intended to be. These are enduring and really pernicious myths, repeated by a lot of people -- but that doesn't mean they are true.)
Myth # 1: A woman who wants a gun simply won't practice with it or learn anything. Repeat that one often enough and it becomes true. But that's not where most women start; they get there because everyone around them expects them to be stupid and remain that way. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (though often made more likely to come true when compounded with terrible gun recommendations...)
Myth # 2: Autos require more practice than revolvers to become proficient. After nearly a decade watching other people learn to shoot, I can tell you it's the opposite: people using DA revolvers have more difficulty learning to hit the target well, more difficulty shooting quickly, and more difficulty learning to reload efficiently.
Oh, that reload? "All you need to do is open the cylinder, dump out the old rounds, put the new ones in, and close the cylinder." Yup... that's all you need to do. You can do that ineffiently and very slowly as most do on the range. Or you can take it seriously and practice, practice, practice until you are smooth and accomplished with it -- in which case you will become almost as fast on the reload as a less practiced person who knows the semi auto reload.
Further, most semi autos hold more rounds than most revolvers, so that the revolver's slower reload also needs to be performed more often. And in self defense? You start with a loaded gun, and the important skill is shooting, not reloading.
So along to the shooting...
Myth # 3: Autos require more hand strength. Again, the opposite is true: DA revolver triggers are hard for most beginners to pull. This struggle makes it difficult for the new shooter to keep the muzzle aligned on target while pulling the trigger, and difficult for her to practice more than a few rounds at a time. (Hmmm, maybe this might also have something to do with the self-fulfilling prophecy in myth #1...)
Racking a slide does not require a lot of strength. It's a simple matter of technique. Unfortunately, a lot of people use a very inefficient, strength-intensive method of racking the slide. For men this rarely matters, but for women it does. When shown correctly, most women find it no challenge at all to rack the slide.
After having seen and helped literally hundreds of people learn to shoot, I can tell you this: I have still never met a healthy adult woman who cannot be taught to rack a slide, most of them in 5 minutes or less. But I have lost count of the number of women I've worked with who cannot manage a DA trigger pull, and had to resort to range tricks (such as using two fingers to pull the trigger) or other sub-optimal shooting methods (such as shooting SA only, a bad plan for self defense shooting) simply in order to get a round downrange. The woman who gets 25 to 50 rounds into a class and then finds that her trigger finger simply stops working, and cannot pull the trigger again by any method whatsoever? She's common.
Does this matter? You betcha it does! Shooting is the important skill, far more important than reloading. Not only is racking the slide a non-problem when taught correctly, it's also a lower priority than simply being able to hit the target in the first place. And it's easier to hit the target when using a firearm with a trigger that's manageable for your hand strength.
Myth # 4: A self defense gun is only as good as your ability to use it. Not a myth!
You're absolutely right on that one. And that's why I don't steer newcomers toward revolvers unless they themselves are very eager to go there.pax
+1 Pax
I see a fair amount of snubbies at ranges.
I do not see a very high percentage of people who shoot them well.
There are occasionally some folks who shoot brilliantly with DA revolvers (Tom Servo being one of them), but from lots of opportunities to observe relatively new shooters at ranges in FL, GA, and NC, good semi-autos seem easier to shoot well for most of the relatively new shooters.
I agree entirely with Pax that the people I see who shoot DA revolvers well, especially snubbies, are people who've been shooting a while, and can shoot anything well.
Autos are also easier to clean, IMO.
As far as women needing "the simplicity of a revolver"... I guess I just don't see it. Then again, my mother was salutatorian for her college class, my sister is a VP at a major university, and my significant other is finishing her second BS, this time as an RN. I don't really know, and don't choose to associate with, incompetent women.
Who was it that said people will live up to, or down to, your expecations? Seems to me a lot of the men in this forum need to raise their expectations about what women can do.
I see a fair amount of snubbies at ranges.
I do not see a very high percentage of people who shoot them well.
There are occasionally some folks who shoot brilliantly with DA revolvers (Tom Servo being one of them), but from lots of opportunities to observe relatively new shooters at ranges in FL, GA, and NC, good semi-autos seem easier to shoot well for most of the relatively new shooters.
I agree entirely with Pax that the people I see who shoot DA revolvers well, especially snubbies, are people who've been shooting a while, and can shoot anything well.
Autos are also easier to clean, IMO.
As far as women needing "the simplicity of a revolver"... I guess I just don't see it. Then again, my mother was salutatorian for her college class, my sister is a VP at a major university, and my significant other is finishing her second BS, this time as an RN. I don't really know, and don't choose to associate with, incompetent women.
Who was it that said people will live up to, or down to, your expecations? Seems to me a lot of the men in this forum need to raise their expectations about what women can do.
Quote from EdInk
"I'll be the first to say it and hopefully spare you the other million posts saying the exact same thing ad nauseum.
Let her pick her own gun."
I whole heartedly agree.
What I thought would be a good gun for my wife was way different than what she picked out.
She went with me to different shops and gun shows to see what was available for her.
She always came back to the Walther P22.
While not my idea of a defense gun, she is real happy with it.
Like us guys, if it doesn't fit or feel right, they won't shoot it.
"I'll be the first to say it and hopefully spare you the other million posts saying the exact same thing ad nauseum.
Let her pick her own gun."
I whole heartedly agree.
What I thought would be a good gun for my wife was way different than what she picked out.
She went with me to different shops and gun shows to see what was available for her.
She always came back to the Walther P22.
While not my idea of a defense gun, she is real happy with it.
Like us guys, if it doesn't fit or feel right, they won't shoot it.
I can share my experience, it may or may not be applicable. I like shooting and own some a dozen or so handguns. When we go to my wife's folks, a farm in rural AL, I always back a few to shoot - mostly 22's with spinner targets for fun. But, I always bring a gun for her to try.
S&W 629 w 44spcl - too big
Keltec P32 - too snappy and broke when I was teaching her
1911s, BHP... - she want's simplicity
Beretta Jetfire - too small
Taurus M85UL - Her favorite - but I sold it
Ruger SP101 3" - now is her favorite and I am left without my trusty 357 in the woods.
S&W Model 19 6" - (she shot this past Xmas) she likes the way it has less recoil but prefers the Ruger
The SP101 and M19 were with 38spcl +P.
Things my wife likes in a gun: Simplicity and ease of operation. She wants to know how to shoot and will practice at the farm but it isn't her hobby. She likes a revolver as there is nothing extra to remember, levels to press, slides to rack, safeties to disengage or magazines to worry about. Open up the cylinder - yep loaded and ready to go.
I should note: she likes having a gun by the bed when I travel. She does not CC, but will take the SP101 on her solo trips to the farm.
S&W 629 w 44spcl - too big
Keltec P32 - too snappy and broke when I was teaching her
1911s, BHP... - she want's simplicity
Beretta Jetfire - too small
Taurus M85UL - Her favorite - but I sold it
Ruger SP101 3" - now is her favorite and I am left without my trusty 357 in the woods.
S&W Model 19 6" - (she shot this past Xmas) she likes the way it has less recoil but prefers the Ruger
The SP101 and M19 were with 38spcl +P.
Things my wife likes in a gun: Simplicity and ease of operation. She wants to know how to shoot and will practice at the farm but it isn't her hobby. She likes a revolver as there is nothing extra to remember, levels to press, slides to rack, safeties to disengage or magazines to worry about. Open up the cylinder - yep loaded and ready to go.
I should note: she likes having a gun by the bed when I travel. She does not CC, but will take the SP101 on her solo trips to the farm.
"She does not CC, but will take the SP101 on her solo trips to the farm." I thought we were told women don't like double action revolvers and that men should not have an opinion about suitable handguns for women. Well, there are at least two women who like double action revolvers, your wife and mine.
stargazer65
New member
My wife likes to shoot heavier guns with lighter recoil and good sights. She prefers full size to larger compact carry guns like the XD9 and G19. She does not like to shoot subcompact guns with small grips and vestigial sights and she will not carry them either.
Nope. You were told that women are all individuals who have individual tastes -- oddly enough, just like men do! -- and that there are a lot of women who simply don't have the hand strength to shoot a heavy DA trigger quickly and accurately.
Obviously, since all women are individuals with individual tastes, this means that some women do indeed love their revolvers. D'oh!
pax
billnourse
New member
Wasn't going to respond again and get into a p###### contest, but some of the responses seem to imply that some of us are just chuvonist pigs that keep the wifey barefoot and PG.
I based the response I originally posted on the guy saying his wife was a novice and wanted a recommendation for a first gun. I gave my opinion based on my personal life experiences.
I was in the Marine Corps for 4 years with a 12 month tour in Viet Nam. I was then a police officer for 20 years. For ten years of that, part of my duties included police firearms instructor and member of a four man pistol team, so I have more than passing knowledge of firearms, effects of stress and fear on motor function, and the lack of dedication a vast majority of people (men and women) have to excell when it comes to firearms proficiency.
It was my experience that an officer could be trained and get through a quarterly qualification. Then 3 months later 20 to 30% would be required to be re-trained because they did not keep up the motor skills. PAX I would be willing to buy you a steak dinner if you would choose 100 of your past students at random and bring them back a year later for testing and have 60 of them still at the levels they were when you finished with them. I will bet that 40 will be below the skill level required to "instincitively" clear a jam, misfire or other malfunction, and of that 40, 20 will be downright incompetent. Excuses= costs too much to shoot, no range available, didn't have the time, etc. This applies to men and women.
Don't get me wrong, the revolver trained person is going to be in the same boat, it's just that the revolver doesn't require as many steps to use if something goes wrong. A misfire with a revolver requires the second pulling of the trigger. As you know, the auto requires the identification of the problem, and then the thought process and motor skills to actually get it done. No sweat for a well trained and praticed person like yourself. Quite another situation when you have let your training slide and your life is actually in danger and the heart rate is 180+.
How many times have people under stress forgot the safety, not got the mag in all the way and had it fall on their foot, etc.? I have known guys that emptied a bolt action rifle at a deer and never fired a shot. The deer wasn't even a threat.
Myth#1. This could not further from my way of thinking. My first wife, rest her soul, shot 3 pistol National Match with a Gold Cup, a Colt .38 Special wadercutter auto, and a High Standard Victor. She shot police auxillary with a Custom Royce Weddel Model 10. I kept her in all the ammo and equipment she could possible use. Hardly a case of telling her she wasn't good enough. Her defense gun of choice however, was a Model 36.
My second wife, bless her heart, has no interest in shooting beyond being able to defend herself. She can double tap the 8 ring of a B-27 at 5 yards with a Model 60. She has no problems with it, as she did with the Kahr 9mm that she traded for it. As I remember, statistics show that most SELF DEFENSE shooting involve about 4 1/2 rounds between the good guy and the bad guy and happen within a few yards, so a 5 shot revolver should do the trick without any manulipuations, even if it misfires once.
Myth #2. Firearms proficiency is the same with a revolver or an auto. Basics are sight alignment, breath control and trigger control. This can very effectively be taught using the single action option of the revolver and then transitioning on to double action. My personal experience was just the oposite of yours. Most people struggled more with slide function than they did with the double action pull of a well made revolver. I saw where you recommended the Kahr P9. My wife had a 9 and I have a P40. The trigger pull on these are no better than the double actions on my S&W revolvers. I guess a double action is not as difficult if it is your gun of choice. Plus many autos are double action then single action, or have a safety that has to be operated. How can this possibly be easier.
The last time that all of us that are retired went to the range for our annual LEOSA CCW qualification one of the officers holstered a Kimber 1911 and forgot the safety. Trigger snagged on the strap of the holster and he almost had a second crack. A 20+ year veteran and he forgot the safety and it wasn't even light stress.
I am perfectly comfortable crrying my 1911 Defender, but I pratice with it at least once a week. Without that kind of pratice I trust my antique motor skills more with a revolver.
I am basing my post on personal experiences which include actually being in life threatening situations involving firearms. That my observations and opinions differ from yours does not make it a myth, just a different set of experiences. I realize that I don't have the credentials that you possess, but I do have enough credibility to not have my opinions dismissed as myth.
I still feel that a revolver is a fine choice for a 1st pistol. They are easy to learn to shoot, they are effective, and if you are a reloader, they are more fun. You can spend all of your range time shooting instead of half of it chasing brass.
By the way, those myths about the revolver being as good as it is was prepetuated by some pertty serious gunfighters. Bill Jordon, Tom Threepersons, Ed Mcgivern and Elmer Keith come immediately to mind, but they were probably just old dinasours like me.
Bill
I based the response I originally posted on the guy saying his wife was a novice and wanted a recommendation for a first gun. I gave my opinion based on my personal life experiences.
I was in the Marine Corps for 4 years with a 12 month tour in Viet Nam. I was then a police officer for 20 years. For ten years of that, part of my duties included police firearms instructor and member of a four man pistol team, so I have more than passing knowledge of firearms, effects of stress and fear on motor function, and the lack of dedication a vast majority of people (men and women) have to excell when it comes to firearms proficiency.
It was my experience that an officer could be trained and get through a quarterly qualification. Then 3 months later 20 to 30% would be required to be re-trained because they did not keep up the motor skills. PAX I would be willing to buy you a steak dinner if you would choose 100 of your past students at random and bring them back a year later for testing and have 60 of them still at the levels they were when you finished with them. I will bet that 40 will be below the skill level required to "instincitively" clear a jam, misfire or other malfunction, and of that 40, 20 will be downright incompetent. Excuses= costs too much to shoot, no range available, didn't have the time, etc. This applies to men and women.
Don't get me wrong, the revolver trained person is going to be in the same boat, it's just that the revolver doesn't require as many steps to use if something goes wrong. A misfire with a revolver requires the second pulling of the trigger. As you know, the auto requires the identification of the problem, and then the thought process and motor skills to actually get it done. No sweat for a well trained and praticed person like yourself. Quite another situation when you have let your training slide and your life is actually in danger and the heart rate is 180+.
How many times have people under stress forgot the safety, not got the mag in all the way and had it fall on their foot, etc.? I have known guys that emptied a bolt action rifle at a deer and never fired a shot. The deer wasn't even a threat.
Myth#1. This could not further from my way of thinking. My first wife, rest her soul, shot 3 pistol National Match with a Gold Cup, a Colt .38 Special wadercutter auto, and a High Standard Victor. She shot police auxillary with a Custom Royce Weddel Model 10. I kept her in all the ammo and equipment she could possible use. Hardly a case of telling her she wasn't good enough. Her defense gun of choice however, was a Model 36.
My second wife, bless her heart, has no interest in shooting beyond being able to defend herself. She can double tap the 8 ring of a B-27 at 5 yards with a Model 60. She has no problems with it, as she did with the Kahr 9mm that she traded for it. As I remember, statistics show that most SELF DEFENSE shooting involve about 4 1/2 rounds between the good guy and the bad guy and happen within a few yards, so a 5 shot revolver should do the trick without any manulipuations, even if it misfires once.
Myth #2. Firearms proficiency is the same with a revolver or an auto. Basics are sight alignment, breath control and trigger control. This can very effectively be taught using the single action option of the revolver and then transitioning on to double action. My personal experience was just the oposite of yours. Most people struggled more with slide function than they did with the double action pull of a well made revolver. I saw where you recommended the Kahr P9. My wife had a 9 and I have a P40. The trigger pull on these are no better than the double actions on my S&W revolvers. I guess a double action is not as difficult if it is your gun of choice. Plus many autos are double action then single action, or have a safety that has to be operated. How can this possibly be easier.
The last time that all of us that are retired went to the range for our annual LEOSA CCW qualification one of the officers holstered a Kimber 1911 and forgot the safety. Trigger snagged on the strap of the holster and he almost had a second crack. A 20+ year veteran and he forgot the safety and it wasn't even light stress.
I am perfectly comfortable crrying my 1911 Defender, but I pratice with it at least once a week. Without that kind of pratice I trust my antique motor skills more with a revolver.
I am basing my post on personal experiences which include actually being in life threatening situations involving firearms. That my observations and opinions differ from yours does not make it a myth, just a different set of experiences. I realize that I don't have the credentials that you possess, but I do have enough credibility to not have my opinions dismissed as myth.
I still feel that a revolver is a fine choice for a 1st pistol. They are easy to learn to shoot, they are effective, and if you are a reloader, they are more fun. You can spend all of your range time shooting instead of half of it chasing brass.
By the way, those myths about the revolver being as good as it is was prepetuated by some pertty serious gunfighters. Bill Jordon, Tom Threepersons, Ed Mcgivern and Elmer Keith come immediately to mind, but they were probably just old dinasours like me.
Bill
Last edited:
BillNourse, thanks for your service in war and peace.
I didn't take issue with your preference for revolvers, but with the assumption you made, late in your first post, that the OP's wife would not train regularly.
You may have meant that because a lot of people, in general, don't really train. A LOT of other posters, in similar threads, have directly said men should pick simple handguns for women.
That is the idea which Pax and I took issue with. (I should not put words in Pax's mouth; I am making what I think is a sound assumption, though.) You weren't being singled out or personally attacked. You just hit on a recurring sore spot, apparently without meaning to.
Cheers,
M
I didn't take issue with your preference for revolvers, but with the assumption you made, late in your first post, that the OP's wife would not train regularly.
You may have meant that because a lot of people, in general, don't really train. A LOT of other posters, in similar threads, have directly said men should pick simple handguns for women.
That is the idea which Pax and I took issue with. (I should not put words in Pax's mouth; I am making what I think is a sound assumption, though.) You weren't being singled out or personally attacked. You just hit on a recurring sore spot, apparently without meaning to.
Cheers,
M
"Wasn't going to respond again and get into a p###### contest, but some of the responses seem to imply that some of us are just chuvonist pigs that keep the wifey barefoot and PG.
I based the response I originally posted on the guy saying his wife was a novice and wanted a recommendation for a first gun. I gave my opinion based on my personal life experiences."
+1
I based the response I originally posted on the guy saying his wife was a novice and wanted a recommendation for a first gun. I gave my opinion based on my personal life experiences."
+1
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
OK - I've to intervene. If you want to +1 - can we spell check your stand up statements and get rid of the asterisks?
Or I'll nail them on style ponts.
Or I'll nail them on style ponts.