Handgun Durability

C

Cold Steel

New member
When I took my first handgun shooting lesson years ago, my friend took his S&W 66 out of his holster, cocked it and very carefully put it on the table. His point was that unless someone pulled the trigger, it would stay there forever. Only human intervention, he said, would result in its firing.

I got his point. He then picked up the pistol and showed me how to safely decock it. But since then, I wondered, if someone did put a revolver like a modern 629 or 686 on a table (uncocked), how long do you think it would remain operable given a cool, dry indoor environment? And would it remain operable for longer than an auto like a S&W 5906? (I recall pulling a Ruger Speed-Six out of my safe a few years ago. Hadn't even peeked at it for ages. It would barely work. The lubrication was gone, the cylinder wouldn't rotate and I had to use some BreakFree to loosen it up again. But once I did it worked fine.)

I also wondered...will these guns be able to be safely fired by our great, great, great grandfathers in some far future time? I know many guns from the 1700s aren't safe to shoot now, but metallurgy back then isn't what it is today. Will a gun that works fine, if properly lubricated, work five hundred years from now? Is there anything in a modern revolver or auto that would deteriorate over time, like the springs?
 
I've got a couple S&W 357's from 1935-1936 that likely work as well as they did when they were new.

If a revolver is kept relatively dry (lightly oiled) I think it could sit in a drawer for 50 years and still go bang without question. I would question the ammo long before the gun. And even then, I've shot 50 year old ammo.

Short of physical damage or a spring breaking, or, over oiled with (what will become) congealed oil, I think a steel or stainless revolver will last virtually forever. 200 years? 300?
 
Like most things there is IMO no categorical yes or no. There are important variables that will play a factor in long-term durability of firearms or any physical object for that matter). If the gun was treated with the proper care/respect while in use and subsequently maintained/stored in a dry moisture free area like a good safe, I can't see a hand/long gun loosing its integrity in the least. Take a look at the NRA National Firearms Museum (in person if possible as it's an indelible lifetime experience) online whereby there are weapons from several hundred years ago that are in great condition--bear in mind that those guns have only been in the museum for a small portion of their existence as well (Napoleon's sidearm is a great example of a firearm's durability).
 
I have handled some pretty old guns and my feeling would be that unless something else was involved, like old grease, that gun would remain perfectly operable about forever. I have seen springs 4 centuries old that worked fine, and iron/steel that old that looked like it was made yesterday. Properly dried wood will also last a very long time as long as it is free of rot or insects.

So, how about a thousand years, maybe 10,000 years. No one knows. But I wouldn't worry about a gun 20 or 50 or 100 years old not working because of age alone.

Jim
 
I also wondered...will these guns be able to be safely fired by our great, great, great grandfathers in some far future time?
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Ummm, without an '85 DeLorean sporting a well-tuned flux capacitor, it would be a tough bet that our Grandfathers will be toying with our possessions in some future time! :p (that's backwards... in the future, it'd be our Grandkids)

To the subject, if the comparison originally pitted were an N-frame or L-frame Smith & Wesson revolver and a 3rd Generation S&W semi-auto, I certainly don't know the answer... but if it matters to the metallurgists and springologists out there, the 5906 runs a coil hammer spring while the two revolvers cited run a leaf spring.
 
I got his point. He then picked up the pistol and showed me how to safely decock it. But since then, I wondered, if someone did put a revolver like a modern 629 or 686 on a table (uncocked), how long do you think it would remain operable given a cool, dry indoor environment?
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As long as the powder and primer don't deteriorate, indefinatly.
 
You already pointed out one of the few things that would affect the gun...lubrication 'sludging out' on you to the point where it henders rather than helps the firearm function.

There's rust and corrosion but James K pretty much said that even 400 year old springs still work ok so given a quality lube and even a little bit of careful storage and your grand-grand-etc-KIDS (good catch Sevens) can enjoy your guns.

More 'ammuntion' so to speak for my favorite mind game when thinking about a gun purchase...the gun will last roughly forever so my yearly cost for the gun is roughly zero.
 
Guns are more like sewing machines. There are plenty of old antique mechanical sewing machines that still work just fine. My guess is that guns and sewing machines will be around a lot longer than laptops and lightbulbs.

Oh, and one point about a gun's springs. The hammer spring in most guns is always under quite a bit of tension. When you cock the hammer, then the spring is under a little bit more tension. I find it interesting that no one ever questions a spring wearing out when the hammer is not cocked, or when a magazine is not loaded - those springs are still under considerable tension.
 
I'd say that's a really good point about the springs. A spring under no tension (in many of the places we find springs) would either rattle all the time or simply fall out.

I've got a 97-year old Smith & Wesson revolver that happily digested over a hundred rounds yesterday and everything about it is smooth as silk. I haven't followed it's entire progress (as I'm well less than half it's age!) but I've got no reason to believe it's been overhauled at any point.

Heh, actually, I do also own a 93-year old Smith & Wesson revolver and while I don't shoot that one these days, I do know it's entire life history and it has definitely not ever been overhauled and each & every spring it employs seems to work as well as it did when new.

Anecdotal these may be... still near & dear to my heart. :o
 
moderate temperatures ....and dry .......are your keys here !

( condensation or huge variations in humidity are your enemies here )....
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Stored properly with a light coat of oil, with decent air circulation - they'll last almost forever...in good conditions ( moderate temps and dry )...
 
Thanks for the replies, and yes, the grandfather thing...I shouldn't post so close to taking my medications! Regarding the spring issue, I've never seen a revolver spring fail, though I know that lighter automatic springs are routinely changed by some shooters who shoot a lot. Magazine springs also are changed by some.

When it comes to autos, I feel the same way about striker-fired pistols as I do liner lock knives. They may work, but I just can't get into them. I want my autos to have hammers. As far as magazine springs go, I understand they'll pretty much last forever unless they're used. You can apparently compress magazine springs for years and they'll work. Rotating magazines, I've read, isn't a good idea. But I'm sure many people know more about springs than I do. Stiker-fire pistols are totally reliant on springs. The firing pin is propelled to the primer, strikes it like a snake, then is compressed again. How long these springs take repeated fire before failing I don't know. Striker-fired autos also tend to be butt ugly, in my view.

Revolvers, especially the Security-Six, have heavy springs that are often replaced by the owners. Like everything else Ruger, they are much stronger than they need to be. I don't know how long it would take for them to lose their temper.
 
Here is a bit of anecdotal evidence,,,

Way back when Dinosaurs ruled the earth,,,
My BIL bought my sister one of those newfangled Model 60 revolvers,,,
They went to the creek that day where she fired 5 rounds and he fired another five rounds.

That was in 1966 or 1967,,,
She put the revolver in with her socks,,,
It's been sitting in her dresser drawer since that day.

Fast forward to May 3rd, 1999,,,
An F-5 tornado hit Moore, Oklahoma,,,
It put most of my sisters house up in Kansas.

Three days later we were scouring her property,,,
We found parts of the trashed dresser,,,
And the gun wrapped in a wet sock.

My BIL opened the cylinder and checked the barrel for any obstruction,,,
There wasn't any so he fired off those five ancient cartridges,,,
After 32 or 33 years of sitting loaded in a drawer,,,
The pistol fired perfectly.

Aarond

.
 
I think that a little oil and routine cleaning goes a long ways. I have 5 firearms that were handed down to me from my grandfather including a Winchester model 94 made in I believe 1912 chambered in 25-35. I didn't fire any of those firearms any more except for the 25-35 on occasion. They have been stored for 35 years between my safe and when Grandpa had them. Until recently when I took them out and sent a few rounds down range. They all worked perfectly.....My point is that firearms will last the test of time if taken care of, and not used,the springs on these firearms may get weaker with excessive use, but I don't think they will be significantly affected if they are mostly decompressed during storage.

I do however agree with the posting above that was questioning why other people don't question magazines while being stored fully loaded. I have always thought that to be the case, springs will get weaker when stored under load. Some springs pull and some springs push, like any mechanical device, the more they work the more they wear. But always remember that even sitting in a safe with some sort of moisture absorbing material, all guns need routine maintenance. I take mine out (the ones that don't get shot regularly) twice a year to wipe them down with a little oil, and one of those times they get a full cleaning.





“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
 
The idea of firing one of today's guns in, say, 1000 years, becomes moot because, even if the gun survives, it is very unlikely that the ammunition will, and it is unlikely that ammunition for the current type of firearm will still be made in 100 years, let alone 1000. If guns have not been banned for non-official use by that time, and cartridge firearms have not been superseded by laser guns or some other totally different "gun", our guns may survive in a working condition, but the ammunition will probably not.

Jim
 
Yes, I remember 1967 well. I was still in high school. In my art class we had a rather quiet fellow who sat at my table and who, we later learned, was a "narc." He shut down a narcotics ring and there was a great deal of anger over it. One student even threatened to kill the guy if he ever saw him and said he'd pay for information on where the guy lived. I said, "Hey, even the mob knows enough not to whack a cop. Besides, you'll never see him again." And none of us did.

I don't recall seeing any dinosaurs, though.

I'm glad they found the Model 60. I have one and it's fairly obsolete, though it's the stainless version of the gun Maxwell Smart used in his ancient series. Back in those days someone in your family must have had some pull to get it. They were over $500 if you could find one, and people waited months and months on a list and never got one. The Navy tested a 60 against its blue counterpart, the 36. Testers put both guns in a steady salt spray and the blued gun began rusting almost immediately. But the stainless gun seemed impervious to it. But eventually it did, and when it did, it easily caught up to the 36 outrusting it by a large margin. Just why I don't know. But it took a long time before it began to corrode. In real life it would be difficult to abuse it that much. And even a daily wipedown would have prevented it. So your story doesn't surprise me.

So let me put it like this. If one and one's posterity were to keep the gun dry, lubricated and in a drawer, would Captain Picard be able to load it with fresh ammunition and fire it? And hundreds of years later would it still be good to go? I think yes. The steel can't be expected to lose its strength...there are no rubber parts to disintegrate and even modern springs would last a very long time. The rubber grips might be a problem, but wood grips might make the journey.

The one fear of shooting any old gun would be if it has been in a fire, or exposed to the intense heat of a fire. People have been seriously hurt by firing a gun that looked normal, but had been in a fire (even in a safe). Once a gun loses its heat treat, it can become like a hand grenade when high powered ammo is used. S&W had a heat treat problem back in the 80s, with its 681 revolvers. Some cops discovered that their barrels were soft. In those days the front sights were part of the barrel. Two cops in Western Kentucky began complaining that their front sights were being worn off by their holsters. The guns' amazing accuracy also had plummeted. When checked, they found that a lot of cops had bad barrels and those barrels were replaced by the company. But it shows that one can get a bad gun every now and again.
 
The idea of firing one of today's guns in, say, 1000 years, becomes moot because, even if the gun survives, it is very unlikely that the ammunition will, and it is unlikely that ammunition for the current type of firearm will still be made in 100 years, let alone 1000.
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Even if they have phasers, there will always be .22lr and .357! By then the ammo shortage will no longer exist. Ruger's Mark XXVIII will be a best seller, and the Security-Six will be back in production, but will not have the legal warning. RGs will be collectors items and will sell for the equivalent of several thousands of dollars. (Many of those didn't last until they were out of the box.)
 
With the advent of 3D printing whose to say a little brass and cases, primer cups and anvils (unless using Berdan priming) are made at home as hobby in 1000 years. Powder and priming compounds might be more difficult.

And Science Fiction writers have proposed several reasons why firearms may not go away. And a 1911 .45 actually figures into a story set about 1000 years in the future in the Honor Harrington series.
 
I have a 2014 Ruger SP101 I just got. It has 1 bullet shot through it--the factory test bullet. So far it's held up great!!!
 
Every once in awhile I get thinking about alternative - and better - weapons to firearms. And then I realize that the chances of getting a more lethal, less traceable and quiet weapon to market is almost impossible.

Firearms are relatively expensive to make and feed. They aren't particularly precise and are really loud. I can't imagine the government of the people allowing us to trade that for beam weapons that can kill silently at 2 miles or tiny flechette throwers loaded with incapacitating nerve agent.

Firearms are here to stay.
 
Taken care of thousands of years would not be out of the question. We find tools older than that all the time that were buried in muck. 300 years is not even old for a quality firearm. I expect most of the revolvers I buy will still be functional in a thousand years with general maintenance . That's why I buy nice ones.
 
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