Handgun Accuracy, What is your take?

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pilpens

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When one says a handgun is accurate, how accurate is it?
Keep in mind that many of us do not have a ransom rest. So rested is the best we can do.
Accuarate to me (rested and seated with non-premium ammo):
.22 - 5 shot groups within 2" @ 25 yards
Centerfire - 5 shot groups within 3" @ 25 yards
 
When one says a handgun is accurate, how accurate is it?
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Just my take, 99% of the handguns manufactured are capable of producing more accuracy than 99% of the people who purchase and shoot them. Another way to put it is 1% of the people could shoot the handgun and achieve the accuracy the said handgun is capable of.:cool:
 
Just my take, 99% of the handguns manufactured are capable of producing more accuracy than 99% of the people who purchase and shoot them. Another way to put it is 1% of the people could shoot the handgun and achieve the accuracy the said handgun is capable of.
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Don, that was awesome, absolutely awesome!;)
 
most production guns are capable of more than I can shoot.
Accuracy is relavent to what your shooting at and why.
For me a pistol is accurate if at 25yds I can draw and empty my mag at a rate of one shot per second and keep a 6''- 7'' inch group off hand center mass.
 
Just about any handgun out there is way more accurate then the shooter.

If you could put any hand gun in a random rest, shoot it with just about any decent ammo, you'd be impress with the results.

Lets say it's 2.5 inches at 25 yards. That would be 10 inches at 100 yards. Well with in the ability to keep them on the E-silhouette (19X40) inch target past 100 yards, closer to 200 yards (20 inches).

The problem is not the pistol/revolver, its the shooter. An example, I have a High Standard Victor 22 target pistol. I can lay that sucker on a sand bag, take just about any good 22 ammo and squeeze off shots keeping them within an inch at 25 yards. Therefore I should be able to hit the above target up to 475 yards (4 MOA, 19/4=4.75).

In my dreams, if I stand on my hind legs shooting at the 50 yard Bullseye target I'd be lucky as hell to keep them in 8 inches or 16 MOA.

In short, I wouldn't worry about the accuracy of any pistol/revolver because the worse out there will shoot better then we can.
 
For me, the mechanical accuracy or potential accuracy of the handgun is important. It is a mental issue for me. To simply write it all off as "most handguns are more accurate than most anyone that is going to shoot them" doesn't help me.

I don't mind if my groups aren't the tightest that they can be, or if I can't hit the X-ring with a single aimed shot.

What I want from a handgun is to know that whatever the target looks like when I'm finished with that magazine or cylinderful, I can take credit for it, good or bad, and that there's nothing in the handgun or my ammunition that is going to louse up that group.

There's a lot of confidence that goes in to shooting a handgun. Knowing what the handgun is capable of and what you are capable of can help you to focus on the task at hand.
 
Depends upon which 'accuracy' you're speaking to as there are two types.

The first is referred to as 'Mechanical' accuracy and it is the level of accuracy one would obtain by locking the firearm in a ransom rest and shooting it. Because the firearm is locked into position, 100% of the accuracy obtained is the result of the mechanism's ability to produce repeatable hits. No portion of mechanical accuracy is dependent upon the shooter's ability to employ it. Therefore this represents the absolute best that the mechanism will produce with a given load.

However, shooting from a ransom rest is not for most of us so we consider a firearm's 'accuracy' in a more practical vein; the accuracy a competent shooter actually using it can obtain. This 'accuracy' is a combination of the firearm's absolute mechanical accuracy as diminished by the shooter's 's ability to employ the weapon with repeatability and is usually referred to as the 'Practical' accuracy of the weapon.

It's affected by the weapon's ergonomics, how well consistently the shooter can hold, aim, and fire it, plus the weapon's sighting system repeatability. In a handgun, these contributors include grip size and angle, height of bore axis, precision of sighting components. As shooters come in all shapes and sizes, a given weapon's practical accuracy reaches it's highest point when it both fits the specific shooter well and the shooter has practiced with it so that he (she) can employ it repeatably.

For example, a given rifle usually produces better long range accuracy when using a scope over iron sights. This isn't because of a change in the rifle's inherent accuracy but rather it's because the shooter is able to aim more precisely with the magnified image provided by the scope over that available with a set of iron sights.
 
I generally get "range", "target" or tactical pistols with barrels over 5",and
it's a sad fact that they all shoot more accurately than I do.

Without parsing words too much, IMO, it all boils down to accuracy relative to
intended shooting purpose; and one's personal expectations for a somewhat limited form of firearm. Let's face it, if handguns were extremely accurate or powerful, rifles wouldn't be necessary.

So much of shooting is personal. Handgun hunters have obviously much
higher accuracy expectations of their guns than someone merely interested in SD. Many of us are down at the range every week persistently attempting tighter groups from a variety of handguns. Some SD shooters(non?) buy 1 gun, 1 box of shells, go to the range once, and are ultimately the most overall satisfied with their handgun's "accuracy".

That said, I have low expectations for ANY pistol shot over 50 yards. I would (not for hunting) take a "long shot" under the right circumstances, but would do so in the face of what, IMO, would be diminishing returns.
 
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It depends on the type of gun and its likely application; all the following assumes five shot groups with quality ammunition.

I expect a target pistol to hold 2" @ 50 yards and the closer to an inch, the better. 2" @ 50 is a good standard for hunting handguns too, unless they're single shots- which should be held to rifle standards.

I like my service pistols to hold 4" @ 50 yards; many snubs and compacts will surprise you in how accurate they are, as well.

I evaluate them by careful, rested shooting, Once the accuracy of a particular handgun is established I carefully zero it for the longest distance I might use it. From then on, it's up to me to 'shoot up to the gun'.

Which I cannot always do, BTW. But it keeps me entertained trying ;)
 
As others have said, it depends on the gun, the shooter and what you want to do with the gun.

For self defense or IDPA, I’m happy with a gun that shoots slow-fire 3” groups at 25 yds and really fast 5” groups at 10 feet.

For metallic silhouette, I want a gun that will shoot groups no bigger than 6” at 200 meters. I’ve had guns, XP-100s and a 7mm Wichita, that would shoot 3-4” groups at 200 meters.

The last time I went hog hunting, I used a 4” M-29 at about 3 feet. Two quick double-action shots hit right next to each other and did the trick.
 
I worked for a few years at a shop that had a Ransom Rest that we could use whenever we wanted. As a number of people have stated almost every gun is much more accurate than the person holding it. There weren't very many guns we clamped into the rest that wouldn't produce tight groups on the target (usually one ragged hole). It was great fun when a customer would bring a gun in and complain that it was totally inaccurate. We would take them out to the range and clamp it in the Rest. The look on their faces was priceless. I have, though, actually seen shooters who could produce tighter groups than the Ransom Rest would with the same gun and load. I'm still not sure how this is possible but I saw it more than once. A pistol sighted dead on in a Ransom Rest will shoot to a slightly different point of impact than when a human was shooting it. Still tight but somewhere else. Also a pistol sighted dead on when handheld but rested on bags will shoot to a slightly different point than it will when shot offhand (not rested-same shooter, gun and load).
 
The word accurate to me when it comes to pistols is how well I can shoot it. This means how the grip feels, trigger pull, sights, etc. I'm sure most pistols are physically capable of more accuracy then I and most other shooters are capable of. Therefore, does it really matter?
 
Sure, you can use a rest at the range, but what are the real world applications for one?

I personally don't bother with a rest, because there aren't any practical

instances where I would ever have one handy, outside a range.
 
Well if you can shoot the legs off a humming bird & not bruise his butt @ 25 yards thats pretty good I think:eek:
 
There are two kinds of accuracy in question here. First: which loads work well with a particular gun, and second: the practical shooting accuracy of a particular gun, load, and shooter interface.

When working up loads for one of my hand guns, I look for combinations that are substantially less than 2" at 25 yds. While I occasionally shoot beyond that distance, 25 yds generally tells me what I need to know. If I acquire a piece that will not beat the 2" standard at 25, I find another home for it. The only exceptions to that rule are my wife's and my carry pieces...both snubbies and these come very close...less than 3" at the same distance.

Testing loads and guns is done from a sitting position with my back rested against a porch post. The gun is extended out between my upraised knees and fired with both hands gripping. I've found that this position (really Keith's old long range position) is as good as shooting off bags for me and allows me to zero the gun for field shooting at the same time.

Practical shooting is something else. I can hold 2+" at 25 yds. on most days, shooting offhand with a good Weaver two hand grip. I'm 64 now and I need clean glasses and must be having a good "eyes" day. For slow fire, offhand work, I need well blackened sights, no wind, and the sun behind me to do my best work. This is what I term field shooting and applies to deer hunting or pretty much any other recreational shooting. Out at about 80 yds from our porch here on the farm is an old 20# propane tank which offers a good offhand target...I can keep a cylinder full or a full magazine from one of my 1911's on it shooting in a rapid fire cadence. From sitting, a railroad tie plate (8x15") makes a good target at 100 yds, and I'm nearly as successful.

For CCW defensive shooting, the grouping depends on the range and speed required. We practice here at 3 to 10 yds, shooting double taps for the most part, and all double action. My wife and I carry S&W's...her's a .38 Spl +P Airweight 637, and mine; a M-36 with a 3" bbl. Double action it's no trick for either of us to keep a double tap at 3" or less from 10 yds, taking a little time to get it right. Up close at 3 yds or less, shooting at speed and from the leather, for the most part, all of our shots will stay on an 8" paper plate.

HTH's Rodfac
 
My best with my hunting pistol, (S&W 686 357 8" barrel,) is a 3 shot group of 1.75" at 100 yards.

The last time I developed a load my 3 shot group was a bit better at 1.5 inches; then the 4th shot put me to around 4 inches... Which I blame on the firearm; because the stock pistol sights aren't for longish range. If it had a scope, I know it would get sub-moa.
 
Sure, you can use a rest at the range, but what are the real world applications for one?
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Load testing.
Firearm testing.
Hunting. I never take a shot at 100 yards unless my hand it resting on something. When I shot my last deer at 65 yards I used a wood pile.

I could sit here an muse for hours on when a rest would be the best bet in making a difficult shot. Those that don't take every advantage of their surroundings will die.


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have one handy
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Oh, you're talking about a led sled type thing...
Scratch hunting and go with my first two selections.
 
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I have, though, actually seen shooters who could produce tighter groups than the Ransom Rest would with the same gun and load. I'm still not sure how this is possible but I saw it more than once.
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It's because the accuracy of the gun and the shooter are independent of each other, which is why their respective inaccuracies aren't additive.

For example, consider a single shot: The gun itself might "want" to place it to the left of POA. The accuracy of the gun has no bearing on the shooter, so while the accuracy of the shooter might also place the shot to the left, it might place it to the right instead. If the shooter's a good enough shot, the latter could place the shot closer to the POA than when shot from a ransom rest. With every shot, there's less chance of the final group shrinking, but a single 5-shot group from a good shooter is definitely possible.
 
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