Handgonnes?

M

Model12Win

Moderator
Well hello all!!

For some reason, I've become interested in the subject of medieval handgonnes, and would like to possibly have one made for me in the near future for shooting at the range. There are a few custom makers out there making quality pieces at good prices. For those not familiar with them, these were used from about the 1200's through the 1400's and are perhaps the earliest true firearm ever. They were eventually replaced by matchlock guns. Handgonnes are generally nothing more than a short, stout metal pipe with a touch hole, mounted on a long wooden shaft:

Handgonne2.jpg


I am thinking about having one made in .62 caliber so I can use the components for a muzzleloading 20 gauge shotgun. I have watched many videos of people shooting these, and it looks like great fun. They are very simple and crude, but seem awesome.

Does anyone out there have a handgonne? What caliber is it? I am having a hard time finding what the average caliber would have been during the medieval days. Any input on these ancient guns is appreciated.

Thanks all!
 
One of my teachers has one and unlike the one depicted, has octagon flats. I think the bore is 1" diameter and it's made to fit a shovel handle. In over ten years time, he's never hit his target at 100 yards.
 
That doesn't look too hard. I bet even I can make one. Grab a POS front stuffer off of GB or Arms list and use the barrel. Drill it out to what ever caliber you want. I believe you could go to 62 from a 50 barrel and be ok with light charges. I doubt you are gonna want to throw 120 grains in something like that anyway. [emoji1]. Then slap it on a pretty hickory handle from your local feed store. Oh wow now ya got me thinking [emoji2]
 
Hmmm I even know a feller with a lathe. [emoji3] Oh good grief Model12! You just had to post this didn't ya[emoji41]. I wonder, how reliable the flash hole would be in a percussion barrel without the nipple?? As I have used the flash hole in a GPR with a few grains to fired off and expensive projectile, aka a cleaning jag! It worked but the percussion cap was the ignition.
 
I've been a lookin on the interweb. I'll try to run up on a rusted out and neglected barrel. Maybe able to find a 1 incher across the flats and bore her out. I'm thinking I may be able to use the rifle breech plug and tang to aid in mounting the hickerstick. Oh lordy, see what ya started. I think it would be more fun than a Dixie bought cannon kit. Which is what I had in mind till I saw this here thread.
 
I say go even more old school, use those bamboo-shoot guns that the Chinese used way back in the 9th century, I bet it'll be 100% safe! (take that date with a grain of salt, Chinese history isn't something I'm versed on).

In all seriousness, I think it'd be really cool to be able to own and shoot one of those handgonnes. If you make/get one, let us know how it performs!
 
I have one of the Swedish types. Never shot it either. Told when I bought the thing, eons ago, it used 50 grains(I think) of BP with a .50 cal. ball.
Second one down. Bronze with a 1" bore originally. Original was found on the bottom of the Baltic. http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/earguns.htm
They have shovel handles now because those are cheap to buy. Real Medieval handgonnes didn't use a shovel handle. Just a regular staff/stick.
"...those bamboo-shoot guns..." A what? No firearms made of bamboo. There were firearms encased in bamboo then wrapped in rope though.
 
I just found this great site about handgonnes:

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/handgonne.html

Looks like a guy was able to keep all his shots on a man-sized target at 25 paces shooting offhand. That's pretty good.

I order a book off Amazon about handgonnes last night. I'm very intrigued by them! I just need to decide which caliber would be best. I own a couple of .54 smoothbore pistols, so might get one in .54 just so I can share components with all of them.
 
..."...those bamboo-shoot guns..." A what? No firearms made of bamboo. There were firearms encased in bamboo then wrapped in rope though.
Click to expand...

Those were what I was referring to, just didn't explain it in so many words. My bad.
 
"...made out of bamboo and stuff..." Just about everything was tried in the Middle Ages. Including hammer welding strips of iron together. Original projectiles were stones and rocks.
Been planning on changing the shovel handle to something more correct for about 20 years now. A shovel handle just isn't, um, correct. snicker.
 
Howdy

The virtue of the Medieval Handgonne was that an unskilled peasant could be taught to use one in a day, while it took many years for most men at arms to hone their skills.

Medieval armies usually consisted of a few knights on horseback, the equivalent of the cavalry, and many men at arms on foot armed with swords, pikes, halberds, and a variety of other weapons, the equivalent of the infantry. Longbow archers were a specialized class of warrior, usually launching great volleys of arrows from a distance, arching over their own troops to rain down on the enemy.

All of these fighters took years of training, and the use of their services was not cheap.

But an unskilled peasant could be taught to use a Handgonne in one day, much cheaper than training other warriors.

A group of Handgonne shooters (I don't know what else you would call them) were usually placed with the infantry. As illustrated by the article referenced by Model12Win, the wooden 'stock' was placed under the arm, leaving that hand free to hold the smoldering match. The other hand would point the weapon in the general direction of the enemy.

It was not possible to aim the weapon precisely because of the way it had to be held and because the shooters attention at the time of ignition was on placing the smoldering match to the touch hole. No attempt was made to aim at a specific enemy, just as there was not much attempt made by a battery or musket shooters to aim at a specific target in later centuries. Instead, the weapons were pointed in the general direction of the massed enemy, and on command a volley of shots were fired, some striking the enemy, and some missing. But the overall effect was daunting. The weapon could be reloaded, probably almost as quickly as a crossbow, and the weapon was ready to be fired again.

The shortcomings of the Handgonne were overcome with the development of the Matchlock. The Matchlock had a stock which could be mounted to the shoulder, allowing the shooter to aim, and a lock with a trigger mechanism which popped the smouldering match into a touch hole so the shooter could concentrate on aiming. And of course, the Matchlock was the first firearm that consisted of lock, stock, and barrel.

By the way, the apparatus illustrated in the article for determining the velocity of a projectile is called a Ballistic Pendulum. The Ballistic Pendulum was invented in 1742 by an English mathematician named Benjamin Robbins. Ballistic Pendulums were used right up until the invention of the modern chronograph. P.O. Ackley described using one in his 1962 book Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, Volume 1.
 
"...earliest ones fired arrows..." Cannons, not handgonnes.
There was no average caliber for original handgonnes. The things were made by blacksmiths, each with his own ideas. The 'Mörkö Gun' has a 1" bore. The 'Tannenberg Gun' is .67 calibre.
 
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