Handcuffs a no-no?

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I am not worried about false imprisonment (by using handcuffs) of a person who has broken in my home and/or threatened me and my family. To hell with their rights once they have done that.
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Of course, it matters not a whit what the homeowner thinks about the rights of an intruder...... that will be entirely up to the courts. And yes, the intruder has rights to due process under the law.

Maybe the best thing is to just keep your weapon trained on suspect until the police arrive?
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And what would you do should the perp choose to depart? If you think the answer is "shoot", you had better consult an attorney.

Personally, from the standpoint of risk, I think I want them out. I don't want them to get the upper hand, and I don't want to take the risk of a negligent discharge.

That is if you haven't already shot them already for breaking in your home.....
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Uh Oh! Do you actually think you can "shoot them for breaking in your home"?

The state will not impose the death penalty for that, nor can you.

You may use deadly force if necessary to "prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to [yourself] or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony" (Florida Statutes, Chapter 776, 776.012, Use of force in defense of person).

You are "presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm ... if the person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and the person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred" (Florida Statutes, Chapter 776, 776.013, Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm).

That presumption may be rebuttable.

None of that above really means that you are justified in any way using deadly force as a punishment for a break-in. Of course, the anti gun community has argued otherwise, because they disapprove of the statutes that relieve the citizen of the duty to retreat and of the additional burden of proof for justifying self defense, and they would like to see the law repealed.

Here's a pretty good explanation of the relevant Florida statute:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5643580&postcount=63

The statute says a PRESUMPTION is created. Generally, in statutory interpretation, that means that the burden of proof is simply shifted. Instead of you having to prove you were in fear of your life/bodily harm, the state would have to prove that you were not. Presumptions are REBUTTABLE. That means an intrepid prosecutor who wants to make a career for himself could go after you if you shot this hypothetical intruder in the back on his way out. Just for reference, the law changed in 2005. There are 5 cases on Westlaw since 2006 about this very issue, and that is at the appeals level. (at least one of the cases is about how the new law should be implemented to "offenders" who acted before the new law went into effect). That does not even count the number of cases that showed up at the trial court level, which frankly I am unwilling to go to the trouble of determining.

In Florida, if you shoot someone who is not a threat leaving your home, you are really taking a giant risk. You are banking on prosecutorial discretion, and you may not get it. And frankly, you may not deserve it.

At the very least, if you shoot someone on the way out of your home. Don't say a damn word to the police without your attorney present. Call an attorney immediately. Do what the attorney says. Don't even say anything to 911, other than, "a man has been shot at XXXX address, please respond immediately."
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Here's a link to the laws per se:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0776/titl0776.htm
 
In before the lawyers! Wait a second... Darn it! Missed it by just a little...

Seriously though, I doubt you would need to worry about it. I can't imagine a home invader sticking around for the police to arrive, or standing still while you cuff him. I don't see any point in trying to keep them from leaving, since getting them out of the house should be the goal. Just call the police and focus on remembering what he looked like.
 
I would personally consider any intruder who, once down on the floor, attempted to rise in any manner, a threat to my own and my family's lives and handle the situation accordingly. Therefore, I see no reason whatsoever to handcuff or otherwise physically restrain him/her. Anything you do which puts you closer to the bad guy than absolutely necessary is a very bad idea, in my view.
 
I had some training from my security guard days on using cuffs.

I decided it was better not to even try.

Its a whole lot harder than it looks on TV if the suspect puts up even a tiny amount of resistance. It is virtually impossible for a single person to cuff a seriously uncooperative suspect.

Save the cuffs for the bedroom. :)

If you insist on cuffs, buy a good pair. The guy that taught my security guard class had a standing deal in all his classes. You and he both put up $20. You get to handcuff him behind his back. If he can't get out of them within 60 seconds you get the money, otherwise he gets it. Did not apply to S&W or Peerless brand cuffs. He made $20 in just about every class. cheap cuffs are relatively easy to defeat mechanically due to poor construction.
 
Once again all the namby pamby's come out of the woodwork saying "don't try to detain, at all, or else"...

Someone breaks into your home, you get the tactical advantage, and ??? Well, exactly WHAT are you supposed to do then? Tell them to leave? Do nothing? Say nothing? What?

I don't see how you're not supposed to make even the most modest attempt at telling them to get on the ground while you await the cops. Sure, if they don't comply, that's another matter. But you still aren't saying exactly what you would do if not try to detain via some kind of threat, implied or otherwise.

What it comes down to is SOMEONE is going to be taking charge of the situation, and it may as well be YOU deciding how things play out and not the bad guy.

[none of the above is particular to using cuffs or not; I'd say that if you expected to wait a long time for police to arrive, handcuffs may be better than shaky hands pointing a gun -- though you probably don't want to have to put them on the BG yourself]
 
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While you have them sprawled out on the floor.....

And covering them with your gun, grab your cell phone camera or digital camera and take a few 'not so happy snaps' of them, so if they get away, you have a nice 'snap' of them to give to the cops :D

Hey, I just thought of something! Take their photo, then steal thier watch, wallet and cell phone or anything else valuable.... then kick them out & tell 'em next time you'll shoot :D

Saves alot of hassle:cool:
 
Actually.....

It would be quite funny (apart from the danger bit) if someone broke in, you bail him up, one holds the gun on him firmly face planted on the floor, the other cuffs him, hog tied (Knees tied together, legs bent up at the knees (cable/zip ties are good))..... when the cops arrive, you are sitting there watching TV, coffee in one hand, toast & jam in the other...... you just point at him squirming on the ground.... and tell the cops "there he is, he interupted my SWMBO's favorite show on the tube, she got cranky and sorted him out for you" :D

The cops would get a shock :eek::cool:
 
Don't cuff people. It is hard to do right without training and still dangerous to do with training. And as others have said, why? Why do you want to keep the BG around? Why do you want to expose yourself to more danger? Why do you want to take the unnecessary chance with the legal issue? There is absolutely no upside, just lots of downside.
 
Zespectre nailed it.
Opens you up to civil and possibly criminal charges.

If you are justified in it, keep in mind that it is not easy to get cuffs on a person. Ever wonder why you see four or five police officers on one suspect to put the cuffs on? Its because its necessary!

Also keep in mind that if you do cuff someone, their safety is now YOUR responsibility.
 
I urge anyone that thinks cuffing someone as a restraining measure is a good idea, should get a friend who will let you try it on them.

Even with minimal resistance, most people will be unable to cuff someone, short of braining them. Just squirming around makes it very difficult. Unless you have actually tried this on a resisting person, you cannot imagine how difficult it can be.
 
HEY... I know what I'm doin' i watch 2 episodes of COPS everyday!:D:rolleyes:
Seriously though I would go after it with alot of forethought (likely wouldn't try it with forethought in play)... A person holding the gun on them could be bad as they would likely be shot in the back or back of the head if they resist...
Brent
 
1. possibility of charges such as false imprisonment and kid napping come to mind.
2. um why wouldn't some one at gun point comply with any orders you give, even to stay still
3. I am wondering where these thoughts come from it leaves me highly curious
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1) I agree with you on that, if it were in a public place, say a street corner etc.

2) Turn on one of the ten different channels that are having cops marathons, you'll see ten dummies run form police at gun point.

3) I think these thoughts come form having a pair of cuffs and wondering if he could legally use them.

I think that if the cuffing happened at your home you could avoid allot of the problems that could arise in a public place. I can see how its a good idea. I spend allot of time at my mom and dads who live about 30 minutes away. They live in a real big house on a decent size piece of property (3 acers, allot for the area). If someone broke in and I was able to detain them, cuffs would be a God send. The house has so many rooms, windows, entrances and exits, if there was more than one they would have plenty of room to wiggle. Having one cuffed gives me more room to wiggle as well. Maybe I'll get a pair of cuffs!
 
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teifman

you could always keep a few sets of cable/zip ties assembled like cuffs, around 'just in case' :D

Even if you can't cuff their hands together, you can cuff them TO something (so they cant charge at you.... without bringing the sofa with them) :D
 
hogdog
If the BG complies with orders to avoid being shot, I would have them splayed out on their face no matter hot pavement fire ants or any other uncomfortable spot this takes place. If they could be cuffed up I might consider moving them to a safer spot.
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show the BG your CCW badge first, and he might just go quietly. :)
 
If you get a BG at gun point and tell them to put on cuffs or turn around and they don't do either but just stand there - who thinks you can pull the trigger then?

Just stands there. Next move for you.

BTW, Policeone ran a story on how many officers got bopped when they have one cuff on, their hands occupied and you just gave the BG a nice impact weapon to apply to your noggin. And they are trained to do such. Still get bopped at times.
 
definitely not outside of your home. inside your home i would be hesitant b/c you are putting yourself in a situation where you have to come into contact with the bad guy and either holster your weapon or lay it down. bad idea. tell him to get on the floor splayed out and explain the repurcussions of trying to get up and wait for the cops.
 
>If you get a BG at gun point and tell them to put on cuffs or turn around and they don't do either but just stand there - who thinks you can pull the trigger then?<

"Not I," said the chubby short guy in the Gator shirt.
 
Get on the Floor - NOW!

1. NO
2. Doesn't move
3. Starts to talk in some strange language.
4. Starts to take a whiz on your couch.

People don't necessarily comply.

Next move - again.

On #4 - seen this simulated in two different FOFs - if it happens in real life, maybe one of our LEO friends know. Dave? Wagonman?
 
I vote a big no on cuffs. In the event a BG you don't have to shoot decides to comply and hang around for you to cuff him, now, unless you have a second person around who knows what they're doing, have to holster your weapon and move to within grabbing distance of the BG to try and cuff him. Any cop will tell you that if people are going to resist, it's often as that first cuff ratchets home and reality sinks in then the fight is on at close quarters. The BG could end up with your gun and you could end up in your own cuffs...or worse

Most people don't realize how hard it is to cuff a person (even a small one) who really doesn't want to go to jail. When you see the dog pile of cops on some guy trying to get him cuffed, thats the reason. For a lone officer trying to cuff a suspect who is violently resisting, the options are few. Tie the guy up and wait for back up or wear him down to wear he can't resist any longer.
For cuffing a proned out BG we will generally use two officers, one to cuff and one to cover.

In a SD situation, if the BG complies and prones out, find cover and keep an eye on him while calling the cops. If he gets up and runs, stay put. Keep the cuffs for momma:D
 
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