Hand to Hand tranisition to Gun

But if you make it obvious, and you are at close range, now you have to pull the weapon from pocket despite resistance.
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No I don't. If he goes for the hand I have on the pocket gun, all I have to do is release the gun while drawing my XDm 9mm with my strong hand, then shooting him full of holes.

MAIN POINT HERE:

BGs don't want a time-consuming fight, they want an easy mark. If you look like trouble, they're likely to wait for someone else.

The worst thing you can do is appear unaware, avoid eye contact, look unresisting.

If you look like food, you will be eaten.
 
But what if you are unaware?

Everybody says they are always in condition yellow. Great in theory, and yet how many really achieve that?

Meanwhile, any BG worth his salt will try not to telegraph his intentions.

There's always value in learning how to create space, time, and distance when you've been attacked or grabbed. This is true no matter what you are carrying.
 
There is a "retention" drill that comes close to mirroring what you are doing with the heavy bag. This was taught in a military CQB course so it may not be something that will be deemed appropriate force in a court of law.

The drill starts with you standing just inside of arms length from your attacker (cardboard echo targets for us). You use the heel of your weak hand to strike the attacker, the target being their chin. This gives you the distance you need to draw with your strong hand. At this range, with your body properly oriented into the target you can fire a double tap into the targets chest from the #2 position in your draw (pistol held high up by your strong shoulder). The pistol is then brough into a two handed grip and a third round is fired near point blank into the attackers T zone.

Needless to say we ruined targets pretty quickly with this drill. It was a little nerve wracking at first, point shooting the two rounds into the chest with your weak arm still extended. I could be mistaken, but depending on your state, the follow up shot to the brain box will not be looked upon lightly by a jury, but the technique itself is pretty solid.
 
Japle,

Get a pocket-sized AirSoft gun and a service size to mimic the way you carry both pistols. Then have someone role-play a bad guy and 'get in your face' (with suitable protection, of course). See how well your ideas work.

Force-on-Force scenarios are a realistic test of whether your tactics will work or not.

There is a reason I do not pocket carry :cool:
 
@Japle: I am aware of the unpredictability. I know it sounded like I was attacking and for that please allow me to clarify. If I am approached by a stranger I can't put my hand on my gun cause I carry IWB at 330. I worry about a snag in a pocket carry, but if a guy is close I am going to use my hands(I practice against knives and pipes) to make space and get to the gun. It sounds like you have your own system you work on and as long as you can get it out fast then that is all that maatters. The last thing I want is for someone to be aware of a gun if they are asking directions(or someone else figure it out if they are watching someone ask for directions). But again this is all situational and thread discussion so no really reality based. I believe that it is alway good to know how to react if you can't get that gun out of the holster fast enough or if you are caught off guard because in reality that is always a possibility in the world we live in.

@Rob: The hand stuff you are discussing is totally legal, and if I am shooting someone state of Florida law (if I am not mistaken) says that I shoot to kill. That follow up brain shot is really circumstancial. If you train yourself to do that then there is no question what you do in reality. Also your line to the jury is that, "You never shoot to wound, always to kill." The reason this is important is because it makes it aware that shooting to wound puts lives in danger, but shooting to kill ends the situation.

@Japle Again: Lol...that is why I didn't question your method lol. If you practice it you know how it works. I don't pocket carry, only IWB so I am not questioning methods. I hve never held the P3 either lol.
 
No, you don't shoot "to kill" in any jurisdiction in the US.

You shoot "to stop."

The most reliable way to do that is COM or CNS.

Saying you shoot "to kill" opens up cans of worms you do not want opened.
 
If grabbed from behind a quick headbutt ought too get you some oppertunaty
to bring knee foot ect, JMO ; )
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Problem with that is that in close you don't have the ability to get any momentum. Also, tossing your head back exposes your neck to a full choke.

You should tuck your chin into his elbow. This gives you a pivot point to take control of his arm going to a balance break and into an arm toss.
 
What is your practice regimen? How often?
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Fortunately, I’m a member of a club with lots of outdoor shooting bays and no “range Nazis”. Once the ROs get to know you and know you’re a safe shooter they can trust, they’ll let you go off on your own and use one of the bays for your practice.

I get to the range once a week, almost always on a mid-week morning. I can practice drawing from a pocket, shooting from retention position and whatever else I need to do.

HINT: Don’t try firing the P3AT from retention position with the gun upright. It’ll eject cases right into your face. :eek:
That’s not a mistake you make twice!!
 
Ok, Japle, but how do you practice the opposed draw scenario? There's only so much you can do without a partner.
 
There are a variety of ways to create distance. The trick is what to do if you cannot create distance? Note, drawing is not always the best option, but if you feel that you must:

I've been taught to control the opponent's limb nearest the weapon you wish to draw. Failure to do so begs a counter.
 
In contrast, I've always been taught to control the opponent's center of balance whenever possible. Problem with controlling a limb, is it leaves him with three others, if he is still on balance.
 
There are other hand to hand tactics available if someone draws a weapon on you at close range. It very basically involves a very fast strike to the wrist/arm of the attacker which is holding the weapon, then a fast follow up with a grab, forcing the firearm/attacker's wrist/forearm back toward the attacker's face. If done properly, the attacker is quickly forced to release the weapon and you have control of the weapon. At very close ranges, it is much quicker and more effective to draw your own weapon. I practice this with a group of people that I shoot and spar with.

For comparison, I've tried many times to draw my weapon in a mock close-up attack. I've seen others try as well. If the attacker is determined to kill you, I have found no way to draw my weapon and get the muzzle close to being pointed at my target fast enough before the attacker pulls the trigger. The "click" always comes right before I can even get my gun out of concealment.

So, what I'm saying is that I think the OP is right on track in incorporating various hand to hand fighting techniques, especially if confronted with a surprise close-up attack.
 
I've mentioned this in other threads...

... but one friend of mine does undercover narcotics street buys. He's also a jujitsu instructor.

He's had guns pulled on him on several occasions, at very close range. Rather, I should say that dealers have tried to draw on him on several occasions.

My friend has never drawn his sidearm. He's gone right for the BG. At least two ended up with broken arms. In all cases, my friend had the BG's weapon, and the BG ended up in cuffs and under arrest (in two cases headed for jail via the hospital).

I asked him why he never drew. He said in some instances he didn't think he'd have time (under cover garment, etc), and that generally he reacted from reflex.
 
Posted by MLeake:
Ok, Japle, but how do you practice the opposed draw scenario? There's only so much you can do without a partner.
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I have two partners, both also retired military. We practice whatever scenarios we can think up, which is a pretty good variety.
 
Suarez International 0-5Ft Gunfighting

Tom Sotis/AMOK 'Accessing Under Attack/Fighting For Your Gun'

SouthNarc ECQC

All great one-day or weekend courses on this very subject
 
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