Hammer or hammerless?

[OhioGuy]

I've decided on getting a Kimber K6s 3" revolver. Those things are just beautiful. Anyways I've tracked down a DA/SA model with a hammer but as I may carry this sometimes, had been thinking about getting the hammerless model -- good luck finding one though, so it may be a while.

Most of the time it'll be a range gun, so most of this tilts in favor of the DA/SA model. Plus it has textured wood grips that I like.

So I guess the question is, how much of a problem (drawing, or digging into skin) is the hammer on a revolver? I've carried a DA/SA semi-auto but that hammer is kind of squared off and has never been a problem. The revolver hammers seem a little more "pokey."

Not much of an issue? Big issue? I would think that as long as there's at least a bit of a sweat shield on the IWB holster the hammer should be covered.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Depends on what position you plan to carry, but there are holsters that prevent the hammer from digging into your gut ( body shape makes a big difference here). Since I'm lean, it's never been a problem with pokey hammer guns.

You can also learn to cover the hammer with your thumb to prevent snagging, but again snagging is going to depend on carry method as well. OWB under cover garment is little chance of snagging. Pocket carry is possible, but can be prevented by the thumb over method.'

I have the k6 before they came out with the DA/SA models, but would have preferred the hammer model if they had it at that time

 

[Hawg]

deleted

 

[jimku]

Biggest question to me is ... can YOU hit the broad side of a barn shooting a DA-only revolver?

I have been shooting for 50+ years and I can't. Oh, at 7 yards I can hit pretty much center mass, but that's about it. For me at least, after thousands of rounds trying, pulling off any kind of accurate shot DA is impossible, more a miracle than skill.

 

[OhioGuy]

Actually yes I can. I've been shooting DA pistols for years (10-12 lb range) and have practiced a ton with a J frame and can be fairly accurate (12" paper plate) at 15 yards under controlled conditions. The Kimber's DA trigger is amazing and most of the reason I want to buy it

In target shooting I'll probably shoot both ways. If I ever had to shoot defensively, ain't no way I'm stopping to cock any hammers!

 

[HighValleyRanch]

One possible advantage not mentioned of the hammerless version is the ability to get a higher hold on the revolver since that hammer portion is covered. This might allow more finger on the trigger and/or mitigate the muzzle rise by reducing the bore axis.

 

[BondoBob]

That Kimber is a beautiful gun. I can hit with DA too. Actually, I'm more accurate DA than SA because I don't practice SA. In my area, SA is ill-advised due to potential legal issues in case of a self defense situation.

As for the hammer snagging, well if you're going to walk around shirtless all the time it's no problem with a side holster at 3'o clock. Pocket carry is out of the question.

That's not a small gun, but I would/could carry it in a winter coat or leather jacket pocket. So, I'd go for the shrouded hammer. Also looks more bad ass to me. I have a 442 shrouded hammer and love it. It fits in pants pockets, jacket and IWB with shirt hanging over. Always snag free.

 

[jimku]

Actually yes I can. I've been shooting DA pistols for years (10-12 lb range) and have practiced a ton with a J frame and can be fairly accurate (12" paper plate) at 15 yards under controlled conditions. The Kimber's DA trigger is amazing and most of the reason I want to buy it

In target shooting I'll probably shoot both ways. If I ever had to shoot defensively, ain't no way I'm stopping to cock any hammers!

Well, to me, "accurate" means drill a beer can at 50 yards and do it pretty consistently. Well beyond "defensive" shooting. And it's all in how you train ... my hammer is cocked by the time my revolver is up to eye-level and at no time do I have to stop anything to do it. My thinking is that first shot is critical and it may require putting it in the perp's forehead to prevent him from squeezing off three or four shots after being hit in the chest or "center mass" while he is "expiring". And on top of that he may be out beyond 15 yards while pulling down on me.

I believe it was Wyatt Earp who said "Fast is fine but accuracy is everything."?

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Can you drill that can at 50 yards in 3 seconds out of the holster?

I have been shooting for 50+ years and I can't. Oh, at 7 yards I can hit pretty much center mass, but that's about it. For me at least, after thousands of rounds trying, pulling off any kind of accurate shot DA is impossible, more a miracle than skill

On another thread you wrote:

Yes, I probably could invest a grand or two (maybe three) in ammo and LEARN to master a DA trigger, but I just don't see a need big enough to justify that.

IF YOU CARRY YOUR WEAPON, THEN THAT IS THE NEED!

Shooting 50 years, or shooting a ton of ammo does not make a good shooter. Perfect practice does.

"Learn it right and you will do it right for the rest of your life. Learn it wrong and you will spend the rest of your life trying to get it right.” - David Hackworth

Not sure where you live, maybe a free state, but around my parts, in order to CCW a DA revolver, you must qualify shooting it DA only. You must be able to place ten rounds (under some pressure) into at least the B zone on a man size target at TEN yards. One miss disqualifies you. Remember that shooting in the safety of an untimed range session is NOT THE SAME as under pressure. They estimate your accuracy is less than half of what you can do on your best range day.

If you are shooting SA only, the first shot might be advantageous, but subsequent shots will be much slower and having to cock for each shot your master grip will be all over the place.

 

[OhioGuy]

That Kimber is a beautiful gun. I can hit with DA too. Actually, I'm more accurate DA than SA because I don't practice SA. In my area, SA is ill-advised due to potential legal issues in case of a self defense situation.

As for the hammer snagging, well if you're going to walk around shirtless all the time it's no problem with a side holster at 3'o clock. Pocket carry is out of the question.

That's not a small gun, but I would/could carry it in a winter coat or leather jacket pocket. So, I'd go for the shrouded hammer. Also looks more bad ass to me. I have a 442 shrouded hammer and love it. It fits in pants pockets, jacket and IWB with shirt hanging over. Always snag free.

I'm not going to pocket carry. I also have a 442 that can fit that niche, but even then I nearly always carry AIWB. I'd carry the Kimber that way most likely. Less concerned with snagging (I always yank the shirt way up on the draw) than with the hammer stabbing me when I bend. I don't have too much of a gut but still...

Now I'm torn between the 3" and 2". The 3" with walnut grips is a beauty, but the 2" is easier to carry. I'm sure it would replace my J Frame. But do I really need to spend that kinda money on a gun that really only has one more round than what I already have? For $50 I can have a gunsmith lighten the trigger on my 442...

I think I'll get the 3" DA/SA mainly for range use and just looking at

Maybe one day its smaller sibling will join my family and become a primary carry gun.

 

[jimku]

Can you drill that can at 50 yards in 3 seconds out of the holster?



On another thread you wrote:


IF YOU CARRY YOUR WEAPON, THEN THAT IS THE NEED!

Shooting 50 years, or shooting a ton of ammo does not make a good shooter. Perfect practice does.

"Learn it right and you will do it right for the rest of your life. Learn it wrong and you will spend the rest of your life trying to get it right.” - David Hackworth

Not sure where you live, maybe a free state, but around my parts, in order to CCW a DA revolver, you must qualify shooting it DA only. You must be able to place ten rounds (under some pressure) into at least the B zone on a man size target at TEN yards. One miss disqualifies you. Remember that shooting in the safety of an untimed range session is NOT THE SAME as under pressure. They estimate your accuracy is less than half of what you can do on your best range day.

If you are shooting SA only, the first shot might be advantageous, but subsequent shots will be much slower and having to cock for each shot your master grip will be all over the place.

Have it your way. Never mind that in 3 seconds you'll likely be dead. Especially if you're in DA and miss the threat entirely. And 50 yards is just my personal requirement for the accuracy of my guns. 99% or so of defensive scenarios are within 20 yards, and yes at 20 yards I can pop a beer can easily in under 3 seconds. Can you with your spray and pray DA approach? I doubt it.

Placing 10 rounds into the B zone of a man-sized target at 10 yards doesn't qualify you for diddly squat other than being able to pull the trigger. Most any dolt can do that even with no sights on the gun. 10 rounds from a revolver means at least one reload without dropping your gun on the floor, which might count for something though. But unless it is timed it's probably OK to drop your gun.

And ... nobody said a mumbling word about shooting SA only.

And my "master grip" wouldn't be disrupted even if I did ... I spent a lot of years competing in Cowboy Action shooting where you cock your single actions with your off-hand thumb and shoot as fast as most people can shoot a semi-auto. At 8" plates a 7 yards and every miss counts against you, and you are timed.
https://youtu.be/dtPnRRxuOuc
Can I shoot SA this fast? No, but darned close.
Obviously "learn it right" is rather meaningless because "right" just depends on who you talk to and what their discipline is. Several things about "proper" cowboy action grip, etc. are directly contrary to most such "instruction" ... but if it works for you, it is "right".

 

[buck460XVR]

If you are shooting SA only, the first shot might be advantageous,

This is where a SA/DA gun can be advantageous. Good accurate first shot and then quick foloow up shots. Of course, this is where practice comes in.

but subsequent shots will be much slower and having to cock for each shot your master grip will be all over the place.

....again, having a hammer on a DA gun does not mean you HAVE to shoot it in SA. It means it gives you the option.

Don't know why most every thread on here needs to turn into a pissin' match.
Just cause folks shoot in SA don't mean they don't practice or can't hit diddly-squat, just means they like to shoot SA. For SD/HD, folks need to use what they are comfortable with, proficient with and have the most confidence in. Just cause it ain't your way, don't make it wrong for them.

 

[jimku]

Just cause folks shoot in SA don't mean they don't practice or can't hit diddly-squat, just means they like to shoot SA. For SA/DA, folks need to use what they are comfortable with, proficient with and have the most confidence in. Just cause it ain't your way, don't make it wrong for them.

I agree.
I just get a little cross-eyed when someone tries to tell me it is wrong or slower to shoot SA when I (and most people) are only half as accurate at distance shooting DA.

Some people like me are sticklers about accuracy. I cannot shoot DA accurately to save my soul. Accurately to me means the size of a silver dollar or maybe slightly bigger at 7 yards. If I shoot DA I have shots hitting all over the "center mass" of the target. Everywhere from nicking his lungs to shooting him in the crotch. Some people can shoot to the size of a silver dollar at 7 yards DA. Bully for them. I CAN'T and NEVER WILL regardless how much training, practice or rounds down range.

I have a little Kahr MK40 Elite. An expensive DA only semi auto in 40 S&W. It has what is touted the smoothest DA trigger in existence. I have well over a thousand rounds through it. I have watched every training video I can find on how to master a DA pull and put it all into practice (as best I can). I still can't hit the broad side of a barn with that gun. At 7 yards the best group I can manage with it is about a 14 inches in diameter. To me that isn't a group, it is a shotgun pattern. If I had to make a head shot with it, FORGET having ANY confidence in doing so short of waiting until he is on me and sticking it in his ear. That gun is now relegated to expensive paper weight.

 

[Hawg]

I'm another one that shoots single action only. I started shooting single actions when I was 10 so it comes naturally to me. I didn't get a DA until I was in my 20's. I tried shooting DA but I never was anywhere near as accurate. I'm 63 now and I see no reason to change.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

With a smooth revolver you stand the chance of improvement so don't throw out the DAO. I can shoot minute of paper plate at 15 yards DAO but I wouldn't expect to.

 

[jimku]

I see guys shooting DA revolvers in videos with great accuracy. I don't know if they are savants or if I'm just a SUPER-DUMB CLUTZ. All I do know is that I have spent 50 years and a fortune in ammo and watched so many training videos that I have cataracts. I have dry-fired until I wore out a couple guns. And still can't do it. The other thing I know is that I will NEVER use DA unless the bad dude is about a yard from me and I have the muzzle shoved into his gut.

The other thing I KNOW is that I will NEVER buy a DA-only semi-suto either. My 1911 is perfect as is my Bersa Thunder Plus 380.

 

[Hawg]

With a smooth revolver you stand the chance of improvement so don't throw out the DAO. I can shoot minute of paper plate at 15 yards DAO but I wouldn't expect to.

I had a Colt heavy barrel officers model target made in the 30's that was probably about as smooth as it gets. I could bust gallon milk jugs all day long at 75 yards SA. I couldn't do it at 25 yards DA. I probably couldn't have done it at 25 feet DA.

 

[Forte S+W]

Personally, I prefer a hammer which can be manually cocked into Single Action. I've never once had a hammer snag on clothing when drawn, but to be fair, I've never had to draw my gun in a hurry either.

Still, most exposed hammers on firearms are designed in such a way as to be be snag-free with lower profiles, rounded edges, and less steep angles. So I think that it's not much of a concern.

The only guns I have that are hammerless are striker-fired, save for my California Highway Patrol 4006TSW which simply came that way and I want to keep it in its original configuration.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Can you with your spray and pray DA approach? I doubt it.

Doubt all you want, but something I won along the way to mastering the double action pull.
Nobody said I was spraying and praying.
1989 USRA postal matches, best in state (CA) in double action NRA bullseye match, all classes.
National match course at 50 feet on paper witnessed.
Shot with a 4" 586 with pachmayr rubber grips.

 

[jimku]

I had a Colt heavy barrel officers model target made in the 30's that was probably about as smooth as it gets. I could bust gallon milk jugs all day long at 75 yards SA. I couldn't do it at 25 yards DA. I probably couldn't have done it at 25 feet DA.

I wonder how many see the stuff about buying a shrouded DA-only revolver for concealed carry, buy one of the %$ things, take it to the range and manage a cylinder full into a full-size silhouette, call it a day, put the gun aside never fired again, and then end up hauling it out in a fire fight and shooting some poor sucker in the crotch only to end up thoroughly perforated 'cause all they did was throughly pee him off. Or miss him entirely and nail some poor grandma with her shopping cart on the other side of the parking lot.

There are DEFINITE advantages to shooting gallon milk jugs at 75 yards!!!