Hadji Girl

N

nagantfan

New member
I just read on Google or Yahoo that the Marine Corps is "investigating" a video that is supposed to have recorded a Marine singing a song he calls "Hadji Girl".

The Corps is "investigating" the song because it somehow offends someone's sensibilities. The song is a little ditty about a make-believe firefight in which a Marine goes to an Iraqi house with an Iraqi girl and the girl's brother and father attempt to shoot him. He uses the girl's sister as a human shield and then blows away the brother and the father.

Now, folks, I'm not a fan of the Iraq war or of our President. But how on EARTH can you condemn this 20-year old kid for SINGING a !@#$#$%^ song?

The message there is that you can get yourself killed, and you can kill people, but you can't freaking sing a make-believe song about it!!!!!

I can't believe the ridiculous limits placed on our troops....a bad war is bad for many reasons, not the least of which is the often assinine limits placed on the people we send to fight them.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
But how on EARTH can you condemn this 20-year old kid for SINGING a !@#$#$%^ song?
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Um..well how about because we are fighting because we have to, not to glorify in killing and mayhem and hatred like a bunch of barbarians? Like our enemies?

There is a thin line, it has to be drawn though

WildhowsthatAlaska
 
The fact that this kid has the right to sing whatever he wants is not the issue - if that was all he had done then there would BE no issue.

The problem is that some of these young kids don't understand that things they do may affect people outside of their immediate circle of friends. Some call it the Law of Unintended Consequences, the Marines call it a Strategic Corporal.

The concept of the Strategic Corporal is that while some young kid might not believe his or her actions will have an affect, reality is perception, and it is the perception of the civilians watching that will affect national strategy. The actions of an unthinking 18 year old with a rifle has the potential to change national policy - that's quite a responsibility, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the reasons we are fighting. It is a responsibility, and must be borne in the manner of a professional soldier.

Would we accept the same behavior from our foriegn ambassadors? What do you think these kids are, then? I promise you - they are the face of America.

Quite a responsibility, indeed. Those who cannot handle it need to be reminded how to act like a professional.
 
Wildalaska

I've read some of your posts, Wildalaska, and you strike me as a good egg.

But I've got to disagree with you. We don't HAVE to fight over there. Our "decider" decided to, so we are. I can't tell my children why, because I don't know myself. As far as I can tell, there isn't much of a reason.

And as far as not glorifying killing goes, I may be talking out of school (I've been known to do that), but it strikes me as inconsistent to say that all this killing is bad, but we want you do it anyway. Reminds me of a line a movie...Sam Elliot played a guy named "Bucky" who is in the Rough Riders on San Juan Hill. Some kid finally figured it out and said something to the effect that "It's all just bloody murder isn't it?" "Yup" says Bucky...minutes before he gets shot.

I'm not some pacifist...I was in the Marines 20 (long) years and much more than 20 pounds ago. But if you're going to have folks kill and blow stuff up, outlawing singing about it strikes me as pretty stupid: "You can get yourself killed and you can kill the bad guys, but you can't like (or sing about it) it because it's bad."

If there's killing the bad guys to be done, it's a good thing. Or we shouldn 't be doing it.
 
If there's killing the bad guys to be done, it's a good thing. Or we shouldn 't be doing it.
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Killing is never a good thing, even though sometimes it has to be done. Not glorifying it is what sets civilized man apart from beasts

WildymmvAlaska
 
Come on thats stupid. This guys got to worrk about killing people and being blown to bits by an IED and he cant sing?!
 
Um..well how about because we are fighting because we have to, not to glorify in killing and mayhem and hatred like a bunch of barbarians? Like our enemies?

There is a thin line, it has to be drawn though
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Oh, Pulease! There's also something called "Peer Pressure". How about we use that rather than an "Investigation". It works pretty well on people who have gas in church; I'd think it should suffice for a kid defending his nation.

For crying out loud!
Rich
 
Dehumanizing the enemy

Would we accept the same behavior from our foriegn ambassadors? What do you think these kids are, then? I promise you - they are the face of America.
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If you think for a minute that marines are expected to act like ambassadors, then describe to me the last time you heard of Madam Albright shooting someone.

Our military is there to kill folks. Not to make us friends, enforce the peace, or pass out tickets. Our military's primary directive is to make the rest of the world afraid to mess around with us. Our military may come to their house next.

Our military should be hated, loathed, despised, and viewed with extreme trepidation by every nation on earth. Except the United States.

The notion that a scared young man who makes up a silly song is worth investigating is disgusting.

Turn the boys loose to rape, pillage, burn, stuff corpses in pig hide, and shell mosques. Occupy the land, destroy all that object, and declare victory over the oppressed.

Either fight to win, or don't fight.

Um..well how about because we are fighting because we have to, not to glorify in killing and mayhem and hatred like a bunch of barbarians? Like our enemies?
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If not for us who revel in the thought of glorious battle, what would the learned amongst us do?

Long live the barbarians!
 
rangermonroe:

am·bas·sa·dor Audio pronunciation of "ambassador" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-bs-dr, -dôr)
n.

1. A diplomatic official of the highest rank appointed and accredited as representative in residence by one government or sovereign to another, usually for a specific length of time.
2. A diplomatic official heading his or her country's permanent mission to certain international organizations, such as the United Nations.
3. An authorized messenger or representative.
4. An unofficial representative
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Madeleine Albright = Secretary of State

Paul Bremer = definition #1
U.S. Military = definition #4

For further examples on the uses of the term "ambassador", read Capt. Charlie's signature line.

rangermonroe said:
Our military is there to kill folks. Not to make us friends, enforce the peace, or pass out tickets. Our military's primary directive is to make the rest of the world afraid to mess around with us. Our military may come to their house next.
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I hear what you're saying, and that's exactly how it was when we invaded - right up until Baghdad fell 20 days later. Unfortunately that's not the reality anymore; the reality is that our troops - especially the Marine Corps - has been re-chartered as an occupying force...which definitely doesn't sit well with people trained to spread hate and discontent.

Yes, Marines are expected to act like ambassadors - because to many countries, those troops are the only American faces that country will ever see. The Marine Corps is a professional organization, and our Marines are expected to act accordingly.
No better friend, no worse enemy. That is the guiding principle in theater, and the "no worse enemy" does not mean acting the fool and then putting recorded evidence on the internet so that the rest of the world has a chance to weigh in.
What makes other countries fear our military is its ability to crush an enemy. Anything that detracts from that image is discouraged. Re-read the articles contained within the UCMJ. Those are the guidelines by which all conduct within our Armed Services is judged - there is a standard of conduct, and we ARE held accountable to it.

If you are still unsure, check out Article 134 of the UCMJ:
General article. Includes offenses that are not specifically listed in the Manual for Courts-Martial and which may "cause disorder and neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, or conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."

Like I said - I share your sentiments, and what happens behind closed doors, stays behind closed doors. However, this young Marine chose to air his laundry out to the world because he thought it would be funny. Regardless of how scared he may or may not be, regardless of how "entitled" he may or may not consider himself - he is not absolved of the responsibility to act like a professional in the eyes of the public.
You want to sing a song about a Hadji girl? No problem.
You want to sing a song about a Hadji girl and broadcast it so that the world can have one more example of how irresponsible Marines are and how Marines are just brainless killers with no sense of morality? Now we have a problem.

Just like any family, the moment one member decides give the outside world a view into the family is the moment that it becomes the entire family's business. The minute this young Marine chose to broadcast his foolishness to the world is the minute he involved every Marine who has ever worn the uniform.

If not for us who revel in the thought of glorious battle, what would the learned amongst us do?
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I have seen the white elephant - and he is not all that glorious. There are two sides to war - and the killing of the enemy is only one. No amount of glory will bring a friend back to his pregnant wife.
 
I wouldnt expect Marines to be ambassadors. The problem is that when you are in the uniform that may be the first time that person has met an American. America will be evaluated on the basis of what you do. I dont think the Iraqis expect you to act like prince charming. They just want to be treated fairly as most of expect here in our country. If the police came to your house would you expect to be treated fairly? What if the police came in and and started harrasing you and running roughshod over you and your family? Yes there is a war going on but common sense can keep the Iraqis that our soldiers meet in the pro Iraqi/America column instead of chalking up another supporter for the terrorists. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37akUD9EJM&search=hadji

Ahhhh, I now see that this was not an issue of someone catching a Marine on tape going about his business. Rather is an actual performance, ostensibly before a group of other soldiers. If the charges are true; if it is a Marine; I'd have to agree the incident is regrettable and worthy of the brass looking into it.

Still, this is a mighty big "IF". Thus far, I can find no indication that an "investigation" has been launched. CAIR (The Council on American-Islamic Relations) seems to have their panties in a bit of a wad and has called for such investigation.

Given the horrendous sound quality and the lack of any visual cues, I question whether this can be used for anything but wild speculation for the purpose of condemning our troops.

Rich
 
our friends at CAIR *sigh*

the organization that photoshopped picture of women who showed up without a hijab putting one on her for a picture in its newsletter...lol
 
And you started off so very reasonable.
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Bite your tongue, sir!
I have never been reasonable.

Madam Albright was indeed SOS, but still an ambassador. Not The, but an.

Nineteen Y/O Johnny from Wisconsin, joined the Marines to kill folks, not to bring presents to the unfortunate.
 
Singing a song about using a girl as a human shield and shooting her brother and father is a really, REALLY bad idea.

This is war. Such a thing might actually happen. Then the singing Marine will be in a world of trouble.
 
What goes on behind closed doors between your brothren/fellow troops/friends and what have you is what goes on behind closed doors. It might not be funny to the rest of the world and most people would never understand your just trying to keep your sanity by making light of a horrible situation that you got yourself into because you Thought/where raised to beleive your doing the right thing by being where you are, doesn't hurt anyone...
because no one see's it, but the people that can understand it...

By putting this on Video Camera which is very stupid, but probally pretty funny to show your buddy's he took it to far. Now that it is on Youtube.com he is pretty much screwed. Someone is going to take heat for it and that someone is gonna be pretty high on the chain. The only thing that can save him now is his Chain of Command, his record and hopefully the public eye doesn't spread it around to much.
 
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