Had it with the M16/M14/XM8/AK threads

What did you mainly carry in combat?

  • M16

    Votes: 17 44.7%
  • M14

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • AK-47

    Votes: 5 13.2%
  • M4

    Votes: 5 13.2%
  • M249

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M240/ M60

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Total voters
    38
IZinterrogater......Roger that on the counterbattery. As for the media, my CO never allowed them to go with us on missions. Because we were almost always choppered in, he would tell the press that any extra room on the chopper, if any, was needed for ammo, medical supplies, body bags and rations. We never had to worry about a camera being over our shoulders. If you get my drift. No hands were tied behind our backs.
I truly believe that the way the war is being fought now, it's getting people killed and wounded unnecessaryly. You guys can't make a move without the whole world watching you. How the hell can you fight a war like that. It's a shame you can't get rid of the media and proceed to kick ass without worrying about who's watching.
Keep the flags flying!
 
I am a US Marine and carried one in OIF 1, it was a very nice Russian milled folder that I took off an officer. The reason for having the AK was Staff NCOs and Officers didn't rate an M16 and I started the war with a pistol, consequently didn't have a rifle. So I got one as soon as I could. Nice weapon but I perfer an M16.
 
The BODY BAGGER......I carried the AK at times. We would take them off the emeny KIA's while doing body counts, and trade them for other goodies with the guys back at base camp who were support troops and not infantry. They were always looking for souviners. Why such a curiousity BODY BAGGER, it was a very common practice in the Central Highlands in 67/68 when I was there. Some guys that had connections with people in the Air Force who flew sorties into Pleiku (Camp Enire, 4th Infantry Division Base Camp), even managed to get them home. It was not a big deal. Many other interesting "Items" made it back to the States as well!
 
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I found this comment curious enough to make me do a little digging. That led to me finding this thread, where you mention your 19 year-old son, and this one, where you mentioned having your MAC-10 since '85. Now, in this thread you explain that you're a 27 year-old ex-USMC E-5 with a $250k mortgage, paid off '04 Accord, tats, and a motivated outlook on life. I'd say you're motivated! Heck, it must take a lot of motivation to get your first NFA weapon at age seven and to become a father at age eight!

catdogowned.jpg
 
IZinterrogator

You should realize that the M-16 you carried was NOT your Father's
M-16. The M-16 of todays' military is so much better than the one we
carried in Viet Nam in the 60s and early 70s, there should be no comparison.

My first tour in Viet Nam, I was issued a worn-out M-16 and ten 20 rnd.
magazines. This was early 1969. There WERE no 30 rnd. magazines to be had then. Back then the Marine Corps was the red-headed step-child when it came to weapons replacements. In effect, we got what the Army gave up when they got the "latest and greatest"weapons. The rifle they issued me was a Colt, but notice I said "M-16". Not even an M-16 A-effing-One! A bare-bones, three-pronged flash suppressor, M-16. But hey, I was a Marine, and it was my rifle, and I carried it, and shot the hell out of it. I may have even put a few rounds into an enemy or two. I would have given my left "whatever" for an M-14 that I could have shot accurately out to three or four hundred yards, but it wasn't possible.

A month into my second tour, I convinced my platoon sergeant I should
carry the M-79 grenade launcher. I had a little experience with it, and I knew
it was as good a weapon as the M-16s we had at the time. Plus I got a
.45 pistol to carry with it. For "close-up" protection.

I'm a pretty good shot. I qualified "Expert" with the M-14 in boot camp.
And I used to shoot jack rabbits on the run at 60 to 80 yards with a .22
when I was a kid in West Texas. But that M-16 they gave us back in the
60s just couldn't do what I wanted it to do. So how about giving us old-
timers a break and realizing that the M-16 you are talking about is a FAR
cry from the P.O.S we had to deal with forty years ago.

Walter
 
Wow

What unit in the USMC issues the G3?

I found this comment curious enough to make me do a little digging. That led to me finding this thread, where you mention your 19 year-old son, and this one, where you mentioned having your MAC-10 since '85. Now, in this thread you explain that you're a 27 year-old ex-USMC E-5 with a $250k mortgage, paid off '04 Accord, tats, and a motivated outlook on life. I'd say you're motivated! Heck, it must take a lot of motivation to get your first NFA weapon at age seven and to become a father at age eight!
__________________

Touche, Tamara!
:D

Walter
 
I listened to a presentation given by a Major in the Army Reserves who just returned from Afghanistan. He carried an AK-47 the entire time over there.

I don't think he ever fired a round at anyone, so I don't know why he thought it best to ditch the M-16 back in his tent for safekeeping.
 
Walter, I agree that my M16 is not the same as my father's, especially since he carried an M1 from '58-'60. :D But I know where you're coming from. If you had the Army castoffs with the three-prong suppressor, it was probably the original with the non-chrome-lined barrel and chamber that would rust up badly in the humidity of the jungle. I would have probably ditched that one, too.

artsmom, that made me laugh. One would think that a trooper in Afghanistan would want the M16 due to range. A hit with a 5.56 at 500 meters hurts more that a miss with a 7.62x39. :D Anyone here with an AK (not a Draganov or other sniper variant) that can make regular hits over 400 meters? I have heard that the round has too much drop for extended ranges, but that was from magazine articles and I want the truth from a real shooter's mouth.
 
IZInt,

Thanks for starting this thread. I too am tired of the gun rag review on weapons and performance plus the every present use of Blackhawk Down as justification for problems with the M4/Ar-15.

I carried an M4 (C8) in Afghanistan in 02 while attached to 3rd Bde of the 101st. After Operation Annacoda, there were no complaints in any of the AARs concerning the M4 or 5.56mm. Concerns were about training and upgrades to the rifle such as improved optics or upgraded M68. About a month after I get home there are these "official" reports quoted on the internet and gunrags concerning the complete failure of the M4. They even quoted parts of the AAR put cleverly changed the context. People have agendas and sometimes reality has a strange way of ruining a good concept.

Soldiers fight as teams with other weapons systems to support them. 240B, SAW, snipers rifles, DMR type rifles, Mk19, M2s, etc all work together. There is no universal weapon. Each weapon is like a tool in the tool box and the platoon leader maximizes the effectiveness of the tools he has. He trains hard and uses what he has the absolute best. In urban operations where ranges rarely exceed 100m, the compact nature of the M4, couple with the ammunition load and the mature use of NVGs and PEQ2/PAQ4C allow troops to dominate particularly at night. Night and urban fighting is a significant part of the future and the M4 is doing a great job. But for those who love the 7.62mm, the platoon and company have them in 240Bs and sniper rifles and now some m14 DMR rifles. It is all a balance. There is no perfect weapon, there is no one tool to solve all problems.....well a JDAM kind of is but that is another story!

Rest assured the M4 is doing exactly what it is suppose to but not everyone needs to have an M4 nor an M14 or anything else for that matter. A balance of weapons allows the platoon to do its job.

People without operational experience often relate combat to an OK corral type engagement, two or three fighting two or three badguys separated by distance X using cover Y and ammunition Z. They then anylize it from that perspective drawing universal conclusions. If they had an M14 they could of shot them out to 600m! they would say, but in reality that is what they have the DMR, sniper and 240B plus all the bigger stuff. This looks good in a movie but there is more to it in reality. What about the platoon weapons det, the tank that is supporting them, the APC or gunship that is supporting them? Three guys don't attack alone. Everyone is part of a team not just a couple of individuals. Until the plasma rifle in the 40 watt range comes online, it is a balancing act, one that the M4 in my opinion is part of and doing well. The army and marines are reacting to changes and modifying the tools in the tool box...as they should. This demonstrates the flexibility and adaptablity of the modern soldier. Adapt, improvise, overcome.

The example of the MPs who recently handed the insurgents their asses is a good one on balance and most importantly training. The leaders in the team recognized the importance for aggressive and realistic live fire training. The result was obvious. Days prior to the incident they had just completed an live fire range which in essence, rehearsed the very attack they responded to. Training is the key, not bigger calibers or different rifles. Use what you have to maximum and train your people to the highest levels. I remember the motto More sweat less blood. I hold this true, train hard.....

If you are talking being an armed citizen particularly fighting mutant zombies, your choice of caliber might be different. I am not up to speed with terminal ballistics on undead zombies but the fragmentation threshold or penetration of the 5.56 might not be sufficent. I defer to those with more experience in this area. :D

What I choose for HD defence is certainly going to be different from what I use overseas in combat. Firstly and most importantly, I can select the rifle and ammunition that meets my needs as I will be alone. The factors for this selection will vary greatly to the task and the pros and cons of different systems. Secondly I have the ability to somewhat rehearse and control the circumstances of the incident particularly in a defensive posture...something troops don't get the ability to do.

So in short, what the troops have is fine. Training is the key to success. Train hard and often. More sweat, less blood.

Jeff
 
MORPHEUS32 Very well put! My experiences as an infantryman in Vietnam taught me many things, one of which is the fact that every weapon has it's purpose and limitations. No one weapon can do it all. When all is said and done, hard training and teamwork will help reduce the amount of needed body bags. To know, is to have been there.
Thank you for your service.....Welcome home! Airborne!
 
Interesting trend...

Nobody has carried a SAW. These things have been around for 20 years and have been used in Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I figured there would be more. I hauled the SAW around for a year or so in garrison, but switched to the M16/M203 combo in the summer of 2001. Any other former SAW gunners out there, combat or not?
 
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