Guy chases burglar outside and shoots him away from the house.

Let's be realistic. The police are in their legal rights to chase you.

But citizens and police can't chase and use deadly force to terminate the pursuit except in very specific circumstances.

You even legally can use deadly force against the law under certain specific circumstances if they violate their mandate and are threatening you with grievous bodily harm. But you'd better check out the statutes for that and it would hard to prove.

Straw man arguments here don't add much.
 
Let's be realistic. The police are in their legal rights to chase you.
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I'm willing to be realistic. Are you contending that it was not within the pursuers rights to chase after the guy that forcibly entered their domicile? Did the initiation of that pursuit negate any and all rights to self-defense?

Which strawman do you speak of?
 
I'm willing to be realistic. Are you contending that it was not within the pursuers rights to chase after the guy that forcibly entered their domicile? Did the initiation of that pursuit negate any and all rights to self-defense?
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It might. In TX, it may not, depending I suppose on the time frame of the "pursuit".

In at least some states, NY included, you'd up crap creek with a sponge paddle, except under EXTREMELY specific circumstances and, even then, it would almost certainly depend on the DA.
 
No, geez - I was referring to the post that you could turn and shoot the cops for chasing you.

so would you also agree that someone running from the police could legally turn and shoot a cop since the police were chasing him/her, forcing that person to defend theirself?
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Not what you said. If you carry a gun and don't know when you can use deadly force, one needs to study up. The right to use deadly force to terminate a chase has been discussed in detail. Google it.

Nowhere did I say you didn't have a right to pursue. That's your misinterpretation.
 
PT111 and TailGator

both referred to the failure to notify police.

However, when pressed, PT111 said that info came from reader comments under the article, not from the article, the police, or the DA.

The article actually said the police were looking at it as a possible case of self defense.

It would be interesting to have some actual facts.

It would be nice to avoid accusing the shooter of something based on reader's comment number 7 under an article online.
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Please reread the posts your are refering to and please quote accurately. The failure to notify the police came from the article and you would have known if you had read it and watched the video. The comments also made some reference to it but the article stated out with that a body had been found. The troubling part is that they never said how they linked the two.
 
Why do people feel the need to chase down suspects?

He ran off. Let him go.

My job is to defend myself and my family. It's the police's job to find the suspect.

I'm not sure what will happen legally but morally those guys are responsible for the suspect's death.
 
Quoting PT111 from Post # 103:

PT111: Vanya - It was in the reader comments portion of the story in the OP. Click on the comments link and it about the 7th comment down from Spurs Fan 1985. As I said pure rumor and gossip but makes you wonder.

As far as reading the article, the only link I've seen was in Post #1. That article said nothing about an unreported body. If you have other links, please send.

No, I didn't watch the attached video, as I tend to prefer print articles over most video, unless the video is actual footage.
 
On what planet?

morally those guys are responsible for the suspect's death
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Assuming that those guys were chasing someone who had broken and entered their dwelling and were chasing him to turn him over to the police, and assuming that the suspect pulled a gun on his pursuers, MORALLY the suspect is responsible for his own demise. Sheesh.
 
Concur with Ricky B

Assuming his assumptions are true.

If these guys pursued with intent to do harm, that's a different story entirely.
 
Assuming that those guys were chasing someone who had broken and entered their dwelling and were chasing him to turn him over to the police
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It is not my job to turn people over to the police. It is the police's job to catch them. My job is to protect what is mine and report what I know to the police, not chase people down for the police.
 
RickyB, after re-reading your post, I had a thought.

The burglar chose to do the burglary, so yes, I agree he was responsible for his own death.

But the homeowners didn't have to give chase. They could have just sat tight until cops arrived. Is there no moral responsibility for having handled the situation incorrectly?

Most situations like this are complex and there are likely multiple points when someone could have walked away (or stayed put) and avoided a death.
 
Apologies to PT111

Need to work on my reading thoroughness. The article did say police responded to a call after a body was discovered. This also means I may have misunderstood his comment to Vanya.

However, I have not seen any police or DA statements about whether the shooter also called it in, or failed to do so. Article does not mention how the shooter and his brother were identified.

Can't find any follow-up articles so far.
 
I did not catch the part about the body being found the first time I read it either. I watched the video and there is where I picked it up and reread the article. Since they did not give any names it has been hard to seach for more info in it and the only additional thing I found was the rumor in the comments. I tried to be very careful in saying that those were rumors. I would like to know how they traced the body to the shooter.
 
So many mentions of this "apprehending" and "citizens arrest" and so few posts, like zero, with the actual statute.... hard to make a claim or judgement without the law...
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Now that we agree, perhaps you could be less judgemental with re: to labeling a controversial incident not framed in precise statutes as "straight up murder".;)
 
So are the cops morally responsible for the suspects death if they shot him when he pulled a weapon, after they chased him down? OR SINCE WE PAID THEM to do it with our tax money they are not morally responsible any more?

I guess the laws of morality change when money is involved.
 
But the homeowners didn't have to give chase. They could have just sat tight until cops arrived. Is there no moral responsibility for having handled the situation incorrectly?
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Yes they didn't have to give chase. But they didn't have to not give chase either. They were well within their legal and moral rights to pursue the intruder.

Is pursuing someone who has kicked in your door somehow immoral? I don't see that.

I agree that if the purpose was to administer a beating it would be improper if they actually caught the guy and harmed him instead of turning him over to the cops.

But if the purpose was to catch the guy and turn him over to the cops, I see nothing morally incorrect about pursuing him. And if the end result is that the pursuers shoot the BG in self-defense (BG pulls a gun to keep from being captured and turned over to the cops), I see no moral responsibility on their part.

Keep in mind that breaking and entering an occupied dwelling has a high degree of moral culpability (as well as being a serious criminal offense), not only because it inherently involves dishonesty but also because it creates an unnecessary of risk of death or serious injury. To shift blame to the victims of the crime is not something I can accept.

Personally, I am unlikely to take the course of action of pursuing BGs, and I wouldn't recommend it to most others, but that's because of practical considerations, not because I think it morally or legally improper.
 
Hi Texasrich...

Your quote: "They gave chase with a firearm, when their life was no longer in danger".... Says who?

What if the dirt bag decides to come back later for revenge for confronting him? Maybe he brings a couple buddies, etc. It is certainly possible.
No, this needs to end here and now. Breaking down your front door is a serious crime and puts you and your family's life in danger.

What about the nice folks who have their door kicked in like this and they DON'T have a firearm to protect themselves? No, this depends on each of us and our beliefs on how to handle this situation. The bad guy here needs to be arrested or taken out of the equation (if he pulls a weapon on you). That is my personal opinion (and opinions vary). I just can't envision some scum bag kicking down my front door (committing a home invasion) and being able to just walk or run away without any repercussions for his actions.
Ain't going to happen in my home, period. Like I have mentioned in earlier posts, I live pretty far out of town and the police would take forever to get to my house. No, I believe I would have my wife call the police while I am going after the perp.
 
What if the dirt bag decides to come back later for revenge for confronting him? Maybe he brings a couple buddies, etc. It is certainly possible.
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Absolutely and completely irrelevant to the legality of using deadly force, whether by a civilian or a sworn officer.

While a civilian may be able to effect a citizen's arrest, it is dangerous and fraught with not only civil but criminal liability. Better to leave that to sworn, trained, and indemnified officers.

Breaking down your front door is a serious crime and puts you and your family's life in danger.
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Yes indeed. Opponents of "castle laws" don't seem to get that.

What about the nice folks who have their door kicked in like this and they DON'T have a firearm to protect themselves?
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I've argued that point for decades.

I just can't envision some scum bag kicking down my front door (committing a home invasion) and being able to just walk or run away without any repercussions for his actions.
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Most people agree with that, but personally, I prefer to leave the enforcement task for those we pay and equip, and to avoid the risks of being shot, stabbed, sued, charged, and possibly convicted and imprisoned.

What these guys did was incredibly risky. Depending on the outcome, it may also prove to have been incredibly stupid. But none of us can decide that.
 
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