Guy chases burglar outside and shoots him away from the house.

Wow, the person is the victim, the LEO, the Judge, Jury and the executioner all rolled into one...

Bad shoot, bad idea and bad for guns owners everywhere.
 
First, burglary is NOT a felony
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Kicking in the front door of an occupied dwelling in florida is the heinous violent homeinvasion that brought about our castle doctrine. I can use any force needed to stop the crime and criminal up to and including lethal force.
Brent
 
Posters need to remember that there are these things called states...

... which have a degree of sovereignty in setting their criminal codes.

Knowledge of Tennessee or Florida or Alaska law might, but does not necessarily, help with knowledge of Texas law.

Texas tends to give homeowners a lot more leeway in the defense and recovery of property. The posters from Texas all seem to believe nighttime burglary falls under Texas felonies, and would allow homeowners to pursue.

I don't know how this will pan out, but just bear in mind that your legal absolutes may not have bearing in other people's instances.

Tactically, was it smart to pursue instead of call the police? Probably not. Was it illegal in this case? We'll see...
 
Yes our state allows the florida resident to handle this case the same daylight or dark.... Property issues not with standing either!
Put a boot on the door of an occupied dwelling and you are committing a violent felony and any means needed may be used to stop this crime and the criminal.
Home invasion is an absolute~! Female dog equivalent slang comes to mind!:eek:
Brent
 
The law gives a lawful occupant of a house the right to defend himself against an intruder. But once the intruder has left the house and even the property, that right of the occupant to protect himself in his home vanishes, even in Texas.

Here, the persons took it on themselves to leave the house and hunt down the intruder; at that point they became the aggressors. I suspect they saw themselves as avengers and would probably have killed him no matter what he did; his attempt to defend himself gave them an excuse of sorts for the killing.

Some posters seem to think they can kill anyone who bothers them and get away with it. Those folks need a dose of reality; I hope they don't kill someone and find that life in prison is not a TV show.

Jim
 
Knowledge of Tennessee or Florida or Alaska law might, but does not necessarily, help with knowledge of Texas law.
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You are correct, of course.

Of course you've checked the appropriate Texas statutes. Burglary is, indeed, a Felony.
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Of course I have, and you are incorrect, it is not a felony. Read, and be enlightened, to wit; (TEXAS PENAL CODE)


§ 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.
A number of terms in this statute are defined in the TPC. “Effective consent” basically means voluntary consent by a competent person. Sec. 1.07 provides
(19) "Effective consent" includes consent by a person legally authorized to act for the owner. Consent is not effective if:
(A) induced by force, threat, or fraud;
(B) given by a person the actor knows is not legally authorized to act for the owner;
(C) given by a person who by reason of youth, mental disease or defect, or intoxication is known by the actor to be unable to make reasonable decisions; or
(D) given solely to detect the commission of an offense.
Sec. 30.02 (b) provides:, "’enter’ means to intrude: (1) any part of the body; or (2) any physical object connected with the body” (e.g., crowbar). Notice that the common law requirement of a “breaking” is not included, and the person does not have to get completely inside the habitation or building. The second form of burglary, requires no entry with intent. It requires “remaining concealed” with intent after entering, even if the initial entry was with consent. Note that the intent to commit the other crime,(a) (1) and (2), must occur at the same time as the entry or remaining.
Other terms are defined in sec. 30.01:

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:
129 Burglary, Trespass, Arson, and Mischief
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
Note that unlike burglary, there is no requirement of any intent to commit another crime. Some of the key terms are defined in the section:
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
Note the difference in the definitions of ‘entry’ between burglary and criminal trespass. “Effective consent” is defined as in the offense of burglary. Depending upon the type of area entered and certain other circumstances, the offense ranges from a Class C Misdemeanor (fine only) to a Class A misdemeanor.
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And where do you get the idea that you can't make a citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor
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Perhaps I just pulled it from my rear, same as you, unless , of course, you would care to post the statute that gives you arrest authority. perhaps you could cite some of the cases you claim knowledge of ?
 
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One major point that no one seems to have addressed. So far in the report, I haven't heard of a gun being recovered. The only people who "saw" the gun were the Homeowner and his brother. BG's not talking.
 
Florida law allows detainment of a suspect involved with a violent felony at any means of force needed until LEO arrives!
Going after the suspect so LEO knows where he is likely allowed if you had a visual ID of said punk!
Brent
 
Wicked, No weapon is required in the hands of the violent felon in florida! Not burglary... home invader.
Brent
 
The law gives a lawful occupant of a house the right to defend himself against an intruder. But once the intruder has left the house and even the property, that right of the occupant to protect himself in his home vanishes, even in Texas.

Here, the persons took it on themselves to leave the house and hunt down the intruder; at that point they became the aggressors.
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Mr. Keenan has it spot on.
 
No weapon is required in the hands of the violent felon in florida!
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You are correct Brent, FL does indeed classify burglary as a class 1 felony, but we are discussing a different State, so different rules apply.
 
does pursuit make one an aggressor?

If the homeowners pursued with intent to engage, an argument could be made that they intended to escalate the situation, and it could conceivably be inferred that they acted as aggressors.

OTOH, if the homeowners pursued with intent to report to police on the location of the burglar, and the burglar caught on and confronted them, it could easily be argued that the burglar escalated the situation.

The intent of the pursuit could matter.

Again, not sure what the law in Texas says about pursuing a person who has committed a crime on one's property.

With regard to OuTcAsT's comments, I think he may have confused two separate crimes. Criminal Trespass is not a felony. However, if he'd read a bit further down the Texas penal code on burglary, it becomes obvious that this crime would have qualified as either a second or first degree felony, depending upon intent:

§ 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if,
without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion
of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a
felony, theft, or an assault; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony,
theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or
attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.
(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
(1) any part of the body; or
(2) any physical object connected with the body.
(c) Except as provided in Subsection (d), an offense under
this section is a:
(1) state jail felony if committed in a building other
than a habitation; or
(2) felony of the second degree if committed in a
habitation.
(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the first
degree if:
(1) the premises are a habitation; and
(2) any party to the offense entered the habitation
with intent to commit a felony other than felony theft or committed
or attempted to commit a felony other than felony theft.
 
Yes it is a different state. But does that state deem forcible violent entry into an occupied dwelling as just burglary or is it a "home invasion" by simple definition? Sliding the window of the bathroom compared to booting a main entry door is often the difference in many states....
Brent
 
With regard to OuTcAsT's comments, I think he may have confused two separate crimes. Criminal Trespass is not a felony. However, if he'd read a bit further down the Texas penal code on burglary, it becomes obvious that this crime would have qualified as either a second or first degree felony, depending upon intent:
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MLeake,

That part did not escape me, and it is possible you may be proven correct. The article is a bit thin on detail but, it appeared that the guy kicked in the door, and the chase began, whether the decedent entered the residence will be he deciding factor I reckon. Excellent point, as details emerge we shall see more I'm sure.

Either way, a pursuit is likely not the wisest action legally, or tactically.
 
But does that state deem forcible violent entry into an occupied dwelling as just burglary or is it a "home invasion" by simple definition?
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Usually that would depend on whether the BG Knew the dwelling was occupied or not, tough to prove if the BG has assumed room temperature. ;)
 
another example of a pursuit

While I don't know in this instance what the intent of the homeowner was, or the intent of the decedent, or whether the decedent initiated gunplay, I'd like to ask a question about another pursuit by civilians.

A few years ago, my father was badly injured in a crash caused when a young idiot in a Mustang forced his way from an on-ramp into busy interstate traffic, then cut across three lanes to try and go fast. He ran my dad into the median. My dad's car spun out of control, ending up in the oncoming lanes, and in an offset headon with a Jeep. The Jeep driver was hurt even worse than my father was.

The Mustang took off. Several witnesses in other cars followed the Mustang, giving running reports via cell phone to 911.

Theoretical: What if the Mustang driver had attempted to run those witnesses off the road (assault with a deadly weapon: vehicle) or had pulled a gun on the other drivers? Would it have been the fault of the other drivers for "escalating?"
 
That whole room temp thing is a kick in the shorts for bad folks in many of the 50 states these days.... same with those outside the auto... let the kind officer know he slapped you and told you the car was his now...
Brent
 
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