Gunsmith's S.O.P., Gunsmiths only!

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

I do not return the gun to factory specs because I do not have either the time or money to put parts into a gun that I might not get paid for.

Same here, plus, if you did, and they refused to pay, you're stuck holding the bag, as they have the right to refuse work not ordered. Some might say put a mechanics lien on it, but why get court involved, and gain a bad name in the business? If I took a car into the garage, and asked for four tires, but then when I came back, finding not only four tires, but a new motor too, I would be pretty pi##ed off. I would most likely squawk to my friends too.

What we gunsmiths have to worry about, being as our customer base is as small as it is, especially in rural areas, is word of mouth, and it wouldn't take long to get black balled, and our business ruined over it. Everyone has cell phones on them these days, so its not nothing to call the customer up at the bench and say, "Hey Al, your gun is going to require so and so to be safe, do you want me to continue to fix it"?

Unforeseen problems in firearms are found all the time, even after taking one in, and after the initial examination, so what do you do? You do the right thing, of course.

A huge majority of firearms can not be put back to factory spec, since the factory had a bunch of hand fitted parts in it to start with, along with no new parts available, making you have to buy a used part, or make something from scratch that will work. I don't know how many cylinder hands and stops I've built back with weld on old Iver Johnson and H&R top-break revolvers, even a complete hammer nose on one, etc. Plus, all the custom springs I've made, since there was nothing available. Where would somebody find original parts, or know the factory specs, for a Chicago palm pistol? Plus, if you want specs, you would need the parts print, and or complete gun prints to get the tolerances from. Those are not readily available, and the ones that are, are generally from military info. Remington and Winchester did provide good service manuals to use at one time, but they were one in a few.

 

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

All I can say is that I never had a customer who told me to just fix anything that seemed wrong and paid the bill without question.

Same here, Jim, same here.

I have had a few say, 'fix it no matter what', but they were very few. Those are generally guns with some sentimental value to a customer, but most want to know what we intend to do, along with how much, and have a very limited budget to spend.

 

[RsqVet]

Dahermit---

I think the confushion you have regards what a "private" gunsmith will do vs. the gun maker MAY do. Ruger is famous for undoing things customers have done such as reduced power springs, action jobs, bobed hammers etc. Other makers are know to do this as well to an equall or lesser degree. To them it makes sense from a liability standpoint even though it may tick the customer off and costs them pocket change in parts. Flip side is if you get a used / bubba smithed Ruger it can usually be fixed economically.

The above statement only applies to things that to the factory are clearly out of spec. Like any machine wear is inevitable on a gun and there may be a range of acceptable specs forming a basis of go / no go determination, these numbers may or may not be known outside the factory. Furthermore I can reasonably state that there is always some judgent involved. Say a customer returns a sig 1911 to the factory with a broken mag release and the factory notices that the series 80 safety system has been removed? My money is on them fitting new series 80 parts. Say instead of series 80's parts removal they note a tuned ejector? Are they going to mess with something unrelated to safety and unrelated to the presenting complaint? Maybe maybe not...


The example of a 1911 and factory spec is a poor one as factory spec may or may not meet with the ordinance blueprint in the book. Thats where knoweldge and experiance come into play. Furthermore as others have mentioned many old guns did not have a spec, parts were filed to fit. In addition consider that some parts on a gun may wear thus other parts are fit "out of spec" to prevent replacing everything or scraping the gun.

A true "blueprinting" of a gun, if that is what you are refering to is rarely done outside of serious big dollar custom jobs. As others have alluded to it was done more commonly back in the day when if you wanted a 1911 you got a colt and went from there. Today with good spec or good starting point frames availiable from wilson, caspian, baer and others few spend the money to add metal to a frame and then re-machine it to whatever spec is needed.

Factories by law, can scrap a reciever that is too out of spec and issue a new one with the same serial, happens from time to time, or if the gun is out of production some will offer credit towards a new gun. Many, again noteably Ruger will go above and beyond to not return a gun they feel is unsafe.

 

[James K]

And Ruger has taken heat on the gun sites for doing that. Long and loud are the wails about how Ruger undid something that most people would realize was unsafe but which the complainer felt was just perfect. One guy griped that Ruger had replaced the transfer bar he had removed because it rattled.

Sheeeesh!

Jim

 

[SgtLumpy]

Here's the way it works at my gunsmith (thegunsmith.com Nelson Ford).

I take him the gun. Pay him $150 (for a K frame) and say "tune it up". He does anything and everything required to make it smooth, in timing, springs not too light or too heavy, smooths sharp trigger edges, straightens ejector rod, adjusts cylinder end play, installs a spring in the hammer mounted firing pin, installs a trigger overtravel limiter, peens the hand window, cleans and lubes everything, test fires it and probably a bunch of other stuff that I wouldn't know what it even is.

Any or all of those little jobs might or might not need to be done. It's all part of the package. The alternative would probably be for him to charge me to assess the gun then phone me and give me a list of all the little jobs and their individual small prices etc. To me that gets lengthy. And there's surely a point, as most of you have mentioned, where he wouldn't do one job while leaving other more critical jobs unsafe. He'll build you a 7 lb trigger if you want, but you'll have to convince him it's a race gun and you're using it only for competition.

It's the same way luthiers setup stringed instruments. The player (or in this case shooter) wants the gun back in top shape. I don't think anyone would want the hand window peened but the endshake not dealt with, for example.

It's simple, he does excellent and guaranteed work, I'm demanding of my pistols. Others might not want that level of tune-up. No problem with that. Some people might never get a tune up. No problem with that either.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Sgt Lumpy,

There is a huge difference in what job he is doing there, and a regular repair job. If someone told me to fully do a complete action job on a S&W, I would do everything they wanted, as they ordered it at the get go. Same as someone saying a gun is sentimental, and they don't care what it costs, just bring it back in looks and operation.

However, if a guy brings in a rifle, and at first off, it seems that it only needs an extractor, but after accepting it, I find that the sear notch in the bolt is dangerously worn, then I give them a call, and tell them what it needs. If they don't want it fixed, they come and get it, and everyone is happy.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Dixie - You're absolutely right.

The first scenario you describe is exactly what I was suggesting in the other thread that started this thread.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[PetahW]

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I, for one, find it amusing that the would be arbiters of a gunsmith's ethic's/behavior are not gunsmiths ............. .



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