I have a S&W model 642, an airweight Bodyguard with a conceiled hammer. Its all factory and has about a 10 pound trigger roughly. If I was wanting to bring it down myself with a Wolfe spring kit, dont even know if they carry one yet but has anyone here ever had one and done a trigger job on theirs yet and what poundage have you got now? I would like to have mine at 3-4 pounds but like I said I want to know what there is to offer. Thanks
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gunsmith question
- Thread starter BuckRub
- Start date
I'm miles from any manner of an expert and I wouldn't insult even the worst gunsmiths by hinting that I have ANY of the skill of a gunsmith.
With that out of the way, I have worked with Wolff spring kits in Smith & Wesson revolvers. It is my opinion that you are likely expecting FAR too much from a couple of springs you can get for ten bucks.
The small spring, the rebound spring, is the one that returns the trigger forward after a shot. Reducing the weight of this spring does indeed improve your feel and pull weight. I find this spring to be -very- un-fun to remove & replace. And the trigger return is, predictably, not as quick or snappy. While it makes pull feel better, it comes at a slight cost if you ever find yourself "short shucking" the trigger by pulling it faster than the spring could fully return it.
The main spring simply just doesn't seem to make all that much difference in feel, at least in my experience in two different double action Smith & Wesson revolvers, and when you make -ANY- changes in the spring weight of the one single spring that is in charge of detonating your rounds, you have quite simply compromised your function in hopes of an incredibly slight improvement in feel or pull weight. In my opinion, that's a nightmare scenario for what is most likely a defensive revolver.
It's my opinion that there are no free lunches. Others will differ. It's definitely a low expenditure to give it a twirl and see what you think. But if you truly want an incredible trigger pull out of that revolver, it'll need some genuine work because two spings costing a couple of bucks simply isn't going to do it.
With that out of the way, I have worked with Wolff spring kits in Smith & Wesson revolvers. It is my opinion that you are likely expecting FAR too much from a couple of springs you can get for ten bucks.
The small spring, the rebound spring, is the one that returns the trigger forward after a shot. Reducing the weight of this spring does indeed improve your feel and pull weight. I find this spring to be -very- un-fun to remove & replace. And the trigger return is, predictably, not as quick or snappy. While it makes pull feel better, it comes at a slight cost if you ever find yourself "short shucking" the trigger by pulling it faster than the spring could fully return it.
The main spring simply just doesn't seem to make all that much difference in feel, at least in my experience in two different double action Smith & Wesson revolvers, and when you make -ANY- changes in the spring weight of the one single spring that is in charge of detonating your rounds, you have quite simply compromised your function in hopes of an incredibly slight improvement in feel or pull weight. In my opinion, that's a nightmare scenario for what is most likely a defensive revolver.
It's my opinion that there are no free lunches. Others will differ. It's definitely a low expenditure to give it a twirl and see what you think. But if you truly want an incredible trigger pull out of that revolver, it'll need some genuine work because two spings costing a couple of bucks simply isn't going to do it.
g.willikers
New member
Or you could learn and practice revolver techniques.
Like the ones from the master himself, Jerry Miculek.
He has dvds for sale and quite a few videos on youtube and such.
http://miculek.com
Like the ones from the master himself, Jerry Miculek.
He has dvds for sale and quite a few videos on youtube and such.
http://miculek.com
3-4 pounds
In a double action only revolver? Dream on ;-)
The weight that you feel is the same weight that ignites the primer. You must pull that weight with the trigger in a DAO gun. One reason why I have no DAO guns. If you lighten the hammer strike too much you will have no detonation, and 3-4 pounds of smack isn't going to giterdun. If you want a lighter trigger you'd be beter seved to get a gun with a hammer you can cock.
You may be right. Maybe my wants are unrealistic for a revolver, IDK. I talked to a gunsmith awhile ago and he said for liability purposes he wouldn't get it that low then after about 10 minutes we got along and I told him I was a cop and he said we'll bring it to me and I'll get it as low as I can that 3-4 pounds sounds doable but with a 4-6 week wait. And that's fine about the wait. So we'll see.
I know I got a Glock model 22 with a 3.1 # trigger and its 100% reliable that has no trigger.
If the 642 won't come to 3-4 pounds then I won't it as low as it can go while still remaining 100% reliable.
I know I got a Glock model 22 with a 3.1 # trigger and its 100% reliable that has no trigger.
If the 642 won't come to 3-4 pounds then I won't it as low as it can go while still remaining 100% reliable.
Zhillsauditor
New member
J-frame s&w's use a coil main spring and a rebound spring for double action ignition. Anyone with two hands can disassemble one and replace the springs. However, to significantly reduce the trigger weight and maintain reliability takes some stoning and polishing of parts. A good s&w gunsmith should be able to get the pull down to 8#. I don't think anything lower while maintaining reliability is doable in a j-frame, but it will be interesting to hear the results.
Whatever the gun comes back as, put at least two hundred rounds of your carry ammo to test its reliability. Also, note that Federal ammunition (and primers) have the best reputation for igniting despite light strikes. I have a model 25 that is only reliable in double action using federal ammunition due to its lightened trigger.
Whatever the gun comes back as, put at least two hundred rounds of your carry ammo to test its reliability. Also, note that Federal ammunition (and primers) have the best reputation for igniting despite light strikes. I have a model 25 that is only reliable in double action using federal ammunition due to its lightened trigger.
s4s4u said:3-4 pounds
In a double action only revolver? Dream on ;-)
Yep. Especially for a J-frame, where the leverage advantage of larger guns is lost. Full-sized radically-tuned DAO race revolvers can have DA pulls as low as 5 pounds, but even then, 1) the work was done by a very good & knowledgeable 'smith who did much more than a spring swap and 2) the guns will only reliably run using hand-loaded ammo that uses fully-seated soft Federal primers.
Your J-frame? I agree 8-9 pounds is about as light as you can realistically get. That may not sound like it's much improved, but if the action's been smoothed by a good 'smith, and you get used to a revolver's relatively heavy DA pull, it ought to feel fine.
A quick comment and a question here.
With my external hammer GP100 I noticed some hammer drag marks. As I moved to a lighter spring I noticed some misfires, until I added hammer shims. With no drag the lighter main spring worked fine.
Now, My question is, with a 'hammerless' revolver can you reduce drag and have a reprieved reduction in trigger pull? Or can you then use lighter springs with the same impact energy?
With my external hammer GP100 I noticed some hammer drag marks. As I moved to a lighter spring I noticed some misfires, until I added hammer shims. With no drag the lighter main spring worked fine.
Now, My question is, with a 'hammerless' revolver can you reduce drag and have a reprieved reduction in trigger pull? Or can you then use lighter springs with the same impact energy?
My question is, with a 'hammerless' revolver can you reduce drag and have a reprieved reduction in trigger pull? Or can you then use lighter springs with the same impact energy?
Not sure I understand your question, but hammer drag will always rob the hammer of power, and a lighter DAO hammer is more susceptible than a full weight hammer, so it's always best to remove drag where possible (it's why a real action job is much more than swapping springs). But removing drag alone is unlikely to shed poundage off the DA trigger pull.
Rifleman1776
New member
Since it is a stainless gun it will sorta self polish on the bearing surfaces. With use the 'weight' feel you experience will go away. I also reccomend the use of a teflon based lubricant. That gets into the pits and puts a nice slick surface on the parts that bear against one another. For now, forget the spring kit and just shoot a lot. Dry firing will be good also.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Glocks are totally different than a double action revolver, and you would do well to learn how Miculek shoots, as he is the best there is.
shouldazagged
New member
A very good smith--he did an incredible job on a Model 15 for me, the best I've ever seen--did a trigger job on my no-dash 1990 Model 640. Got it down to very smooth eight pounds, only slightly lighter but much slicker, which for me seems just fine for a DAO carry gun. Frankly three or four pounds would scare the hell out of me. When adrenalin is squirting out my ears I want it to take a definite decision to fire.
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BigD_in_FL
Moderator
This 642 is my wife's and even though she doesn't complain I still want it taken as light as it can be.
It's HER gun - does SHE want it lighter, or do you? If you can get it as light as you want, it will take her a fair amount of training to relearn the gun
I want it lighter. Yes it's her gun but let's face it, it'd make the gun more pleasant to shoot, more accurate. Try shooting a pistol with a 8-9 pound trigger then a gun with a 50 pound trigger and tell me which one is more pleasant or accurate. I know this is a big difference but you get the idea.
I hope I may be permitted a general comment on lightening DA trigger pulls.
S&W, and every other maker of handguns that might be used for serious purposes builds in extra spring power beyond what is absolutely necessary. That extra power handles what might be called "adverse conditions" like dirt, crud, grease, cold, etc. The gunsmith, professional or amateur, who does a "trigger job" and lightens the pull is removing some of that extra protection. Most always, the gun will never have to be used under those "adverse conditions" and the extra power will not be missed. That will certainly be true of a "range queen" that will be well maintained and fired only in good weather. But IMHO, the police officer's weapon, especially one carried mostly in the open, might well need the extra power.
Before some folks rush to call me names, I know that guns with reduced power mainsprings and the like have fired thousands of rounds with no problem. And I know that gunsmith X or your cousin Joe can "tune" a revolver to get a very light pull and only have misfires once in a while. And I know that renowned shooter Z claims to have his DA pull at .000003 ounces. And I know that you can have the pull lightened and use only reloads with soft primers.
Yes, I know all that. And yes, I have worked on many revolver DA trigger pulls, S&W, Colt, and Ruger. I refused to take any down beyond what I felt was a proper level of reliability, no matter what the customer said, or what he had read or what some expert claimed.
Jim
S&W, and every other maker of handguns that might be used for serious purposes builds in extra spring power beyond what is absolutely necessary. That extra power handles what might be called "adverse conditions" like dirt, crud, grease, cold, etc. The gunsmith, professional or amateur, who does a "trigger job" and lightens the pull is removing some of that extra protection. Most always, the gun will never have to be used under those "adverse conditions" and the extra power will not be missed. That will certainly be true of a "range queen" that will be well maintained and fired only in good weather. But IMHO, the police officer's weapon, especially one carried mostly in the open, might well need the extra power.
Before some folks rush to call me names, I know that guns with reduced power mainsprings and the like have fired thousands of rounds with no problem. And I know that gunsmith X or your cousin Joe can "tune" a revolver to get a very light pull and only have misfires once in a while. And I know that renowned shooter Z claims to have his DA pull at .000003 ounces. And I know that you can have the pull lightened and use only reloads with soft primers.
Yes, I know all that. And yes, I have worked on many revolver DA trigger pulls, S&W, Colt, and Ruger. I refused to take any down beyond what I felt was a proper level of reliability, no matter what the customer said, or what he had read or what some expert claimed.
Jim