Guns in the house with Kids...

R

Rob Pincus

New member
This is a carry over from the discussion that started in Handgun forum regarding chambered rounds.

If you believe the media and the antis, more kids are shot by having access to firearms than are saved by their parents having access to them.

I don't know if it is true or not, but it still makes those of us that are parents think. I have loaded guns in the house. I have three kids in the house. It was mentioned elsewhere that there is less likelyhood for girls to mess with guns: My three year old daughter came running down to my office a few days ago with a plastic gun that she had gotten out of a gumball machine. she was excited and wanted to give it to Daddy, cuz she knew he'd like it.
also, my 10 year old step daughter is much more likely to ask to accomapny me to the range than my 13 year old stepson (don't ge me started...).

I choose to be very pro-active. I make sure the kids have opportunities to shoot with and examine the guns as they want to. But, I don't live in a fairy tale world. I knew where my dad kept the guns and the ammo. I never shot myself or my friends, but I wouldn't have earned any Eddie Eagle merit badges either, if you know what I mean.

We have a nanny who lives in the house (yes, she can shoot, pretty well too), so the kids are never really alone in the house. But when we are all going to be away for more than a day, generally, all the guns are put away.

Also, the guns that are left loaded are revolvers. They are simple and reliable, and all the adults know where they are and how to use them. I feel a revolver is THE best choice for my situation, it may not be for yours.

When I come home at the end of the day or the end of the night and an auto that I've been wearing gets put on the top shelf of the closet or (yes, I do it..) the refrigerator, I choose not to remove the round from the chamber. The only guns that I have even close to that condition are in my gun room, unloaded with loaded mags next to them.

What do you guys do?
(AS usual, this is not meant as advice, just wanted to make sure that was clear. as stated, this is what I do, see post below for more on this....)
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-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 12-16-98).]
 
Even thru I don't have any children in the house there is always that posibility, I always keep all unloaded except one (when I had all of them) and after wearing it all day it never leaves my sight.

[This message has been edited by FLYERM14 (edited 12-16-98).]
 
I keep my guns, loaded or unloaded, under lock and key. I must admit that, left to my own devices, I probably would not be as careful as I am now. But, my wife is a nurse who has been involved with more than a few shootings -- some of them involving kids who found a loaded gun and "played" with it.

So, she has made the locking away of guns in our house a non negotiable law. Come to think of it -- it's probably a good law. Having one of my grandchildren injured, or worse, by one of my guns would be damned difficult to live with.
 
Rob, This is really one of those situations without a one-size-fits-all-solution. The individual's situation really dictates how, where, and what condition the gun is kept in.
Being an apt. dweller with no kids around I'll keep a revolver hidden in the bedroom with the rounds in a speedloader nearby. This way I figure if awakened in the middle of the night, by going through the physical and mental act of loading the gun, I will be fully awake and coherent as to what is happening. The rest of the guns are in a safe. I'm really not a fan of leaving loaded guns around unattended. If I prefer a loaded weapon, I'll keep it on my person. The liability is just to great. But,thats just me.
Stay Safe
 
I'm with Contender...let the circumstances dictate. In a growing number of states criminal penalties are applicable to those who leave a firearm within access of a minor.

Given the new easy access pistol safes on the market, I can't think of too many cases where a firearm needs to be left out with children around....especially neighbors kids.
Rich
 
I'm not looking for suggestions on this one guys. Rather, trying to get a feel for what everyone else is doing.
You guys are both right about this being extremely case dependent, maybe that is the only thing we can be sure of.

Personally, this is one of the few firearms topics where I try not to give advice, even to very close friends/family. I'll tell them what I do, but this might be THE most important decision, after you decide to have a gun, that you make.

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-Essayons
 
We reared three girls in a house with guns in it. I am afraid to say that I did not lock the guns nor the ammunition up.

My girls are now 23,19, and 15. Thier mother and I are divorced. They have not had firearms in the house for several years.

What I did was:

Showed the girls the guns anytime they asked.

Emphasis was placed on the responsibility of observing rules:

All guns are loaded!

Never allow the muzzle to bear on anything you are not immediately ready to destroy.

Be sure of your target and backstop!

Keep finger out of trigger gaurd until ready to shoot.

Always remember that you can not call a bullet back!

My daughters have no fear of firearms, thye do not share my enthusiasm for them but they do not subscribe to the liberal hype.

I WAS FORTUNATE! Guns and ammunition should be locked up in storage, I now handle this in my house in this manner. My carry piece is always ready, all the rest are unloaded and locked up. Whenever I talk guns or show guns, the first thing I do is inform the others that all guns in my house are probably loaded. This seems to work in ensuring that all firearms are handled IAW the rules.

yours in marksmanship

michael

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I have two Glocks and a shotgun in the house. I also have a 4 year old boy and a 1 year old boy. I keep my shotgun in a soft rifle bag under my bed. I keep the magazine filled and have a cable lock on it. The key to the lock is in my bedstand for easy access. As for my Glocks, one is continuously locked in a small gun safe in the bedstand. The other, my preferred carry gun, is also put in the safe when I come home. At night when I go to bed, I leave the safe unlocked. When I wake up the next morning, I remove my carry gun and lock the safe up again.

My 4 year old doesnt' know about the guns. To be honest, I'm not sure how/when to approach the subject with him.
 
I don't have any kids but I grew up in a house with about 50 or 60 weapons. My father was pretty much the way Michael summed up his situation. He was always happy to "show and tell" for us and to let us handle and get a feel for them. ( I think he was prepping me for ending up taking care of them a couple of years down the road though I didn't have a problem with that either :) ) When I lived with an ex-girlfriend and her daughter I tried to live by the same rules. She ended up with respect for firearms and not a hysterical fear. I think I had almost as much fun watching her shoot as I did shooting myself.
 
When my son & stepson were young I kept my pistols unloaded in a storage cabinet with a lock that had only one key & I had the key. At night the semi-autmoatic came out to the nightstand with a clip in, but not chambered. In the morning it went back to the cabinet. I know on more than one occasion one or both of the boys tried to get into the cabinet.

When my wife's grandson was living in the area and came over I made sure that all handguns & long guns (my collection has grown over the years) where unloaded & secure. Now that he is in a different state I keep my revolvers loaded and my semi-autos with a clip in them.
 
My 3 boys make play guns out of legos, and all the other construction type toys... one of my 2 year old twins even made a play gun out of a piece of toast he was eating! They love to play guns. I took my 5 year old out last week and let him fire the .22 for the first time. All the kids have seen me shoot all my guns. They know what Daddy's Guns can do. They have all held my guns under close supervision. There is no curiosity there - there is knowledge.
As a test I took an unloaded pistol (Sig P220) and placed it on the couch in the rec room. I then moved to a place where I could observe the kids and the gun. (I hid in the closet). The boys came in and started playing. They soon discovered the gun, and all the boys looked at it with out touching it - the twins pointed and declared it to be an "Ooouch!" and the gun didn't get a finger on it. Kade my five year old Yelled.
"DAD... your SIG SOUR IS ON THE COUCH!"
I waited for a second... Kade ran off to find me, while Aidan and Kylan went back to playing with the Hotwheels.

Had this test been done with other kids... I am sure the gun would have been pointed at some one and the trigger been pulled on. Education is the key to safty.
However, my guns are all unloaded save for one. The Bushmaster has a magazine of Hornady's Urban TAP rounds locked in, with an empty chamber. The BM is at the top of a closet where the kids, as creative engineers they are, can't get to it.

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Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com
 
My two daughters, now 10 & 14 have grown up with guns visible in the house. They've been racked, with trigger locks installed, except for whatever's with me at the time. My older daughter likes to shoot, the younger can take it or leave it, but for several years her favorite video was Eddie Eagle. I recently bought a gun safe because my kids are old enough now that we're starting to have visitors who we don't always know.
We're also fortunate to have a school district that recognizes reality- Eddie Eagle is included in the grammar school safety day, along with the firemen & police.
 
Michael has it right. The key is educating your kids about guns. You don't fear what you understand. The common note to many child gun accidents is simple curiousity. The child finds the gun, doesn't really know anything about it and suddenly BANG! Any parent who believes they can hide a gun , or anything for that matter, from their kids is only fooling themselves. If it's in the house the kids WILL find it.
I have two boys and from the time they first knew what a gun was I have always let them see or handle my guns whenever they asked. The boys are now 19 & 14 and I'm happy to say that every time one of them picks up a gun he instinctivly opens the action and checks the chamber. Knowledge is power.
 
We have seven kids in my family. I am the oldest, 16. The youngest is 3 months. We have had guns in the house since I was born. When I was little I didn't even know where my dad kept the guns, but I knew he had them and he took me out with the .22 sometimes. Now we have a gunsafe that is always locked with all of the guns and ammo in it. I know where the key is as do my two sisters (12 and 14). My dad taught all of us gun safety at an early age and it is just common sense to us. We have no reason whatsoever to have loaded guns in the house. My parents trust me with the guns completely. I do most of the cleaning, etc. It's not really a big deal in our house since hunting is just a way of life.

Andy
 
Michael, right on target....

I have a 3 yr. old, and he can see what he wants in the safe about any reasonable time he wants to. Guns are not a forbidden fruit, but he is already well versed on the dangers of firearms. Anytime he sees a real firearm, he goes into lecture mode listing off how to check to make sure their safe, if you find one, leave it alone and tell an adult, how to load an M60, etc. (just kidding on that last one!)

I don't want any unauthorized persons having access to firearms in my house regardless of age! An adult idiot with a loaded firearm is even more dangerous than a 3 year old, IMHO.

I keep everything in the safe, and my .45 Glock is kept by the bed, in one of those quick open safes that have the rubber handprint on top with the code buttons in the fingertip area. I have disabled the key lock on it so it can only open by code entry. I keep fresh batteries in it, otherwise, we will have to cut it open with a torch!

It has a round in the chamber and it's ready to go!

Also, as to statistics, I volunteered to keep track of wild statistics in the press in my spare time(!) and report anything I see to a contact at DPS in Texas.

I can tell you with confidence that, in the U.S., a gun in the house is WAY down the list of things that seriuosly injure, cripple or kill children. Far ahead in "deadliness" is:
abusive parents, bathtubs/pools, cleaning products, kitchen appliances and tools.

Just remember the numbers game that they play when they say that guns are the 4th (or whatever they say this week) leading cause of deaths with children, they will never tell you HOW DISTANT below the 1st,2nd,and 3rd causes that #4 really is. For example, If I say that the second leading cause of deaths for squirrels in Texas is motorists who run over them, and per 100 squirrels, 2 die from motorists, and the other 98 die from natural causes, I haven't lied, have I?

In closing, the absolute dummest thing I heard was late one night on the T.V.. It was one of those McGruff the crime dog spots.
McGruff said that every day, 40(!) children (children, of course being 12 and under)are killed by handguns in the U.S. Folks, do the math. This statement is nonsense. I finally tracked down someone on this, told them I was doing volunteer reasearch for DPS, and where in the world did they get that statistic? I have left messages 5 times since, and have never received an answer. Go figure.....
 
I supprised a burglar in the act when I got home a few years ago and I'm here to tell you, getting my own S&W 357 Maginum pointed at me was no fun. Kind of turns around the reason I owned it. Now I have kids so for both reasons I keep them locked away. A small gun vault that can be operated in the dark worked best for me. (much better than just laying in the top of the night stand)
 
I'm pretty much totally derelict, by everyone else's standards. Then again, my dog Stardust has an instinctual fear of guns, so I'm fairly sure she won't cause an AD! She found out a few weeks ago when we went hunting that they make loud noises, but prior to that, she had no (logical) reason to fear them. I believe there is something about the energy in the piece that is felt...

When (if?) I do have children, I plan on strictly controlling access to the weapons, depending on current socio-political factors. (otherwise known as threat level.)

As far as the statistics, "don't believe the hype."
 
Rob,

I have a two year old son in the house. I had to come to a compromise with my wife in order to keep a loaded gun around. What we agreed on was a Ready Safe with a Simplex lock and a Magna Trigger for my S&W M686 Plus. This is the trigger system which Mas Ayoob used for his house gun when his kids were small.

Axel
 
I have heard a lot of people talk about hose triggers, but never actually tried one.

I looked long and hard at those "gun vaults," but ended up deciding against buying a couple of them.
I don't lock up my car keys even though the odler kids are certainly capable of driving down the road and hurting themselves or someone else.

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-Essayons
 
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