guns confiscated by police

Hi, Sgt. Lumpy,

Well, I really don't have to tell you or anyone else where that was; if I wanted to be a crusader, I would make a complaint to DOJ (and a fat lot of good that would do!). But it was in an eastern city, and the evidence room was in the damp basement. Sure not a good place, but will YOU tell the feds that they are not doing things the way you want them to? The horrible fact is that the FBI, ATF, Secret Service, and all the other federal LE agencies pretty well do what they want to do.

I have known BATFE agents who were decent folks, doing their jobs. But I have also known some who were full of hatred for civilian gun owners and even despised local police. I hope you never run into the latter kind; it is not pleasant.

Jim
 
The horrible fact is that the FBI, ATF, Secret Service, and all the other federal LE agencies pretty well do what they want to do.
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That's not a "fact", it's your opinion of anger, seeded by a single incident or two. I'm not denying that someone's evidence someplace got mistreated. That's just plain wrong. But to stretch that to "All federal LE agencies" or "All cops" is just as silly as when people say "All gun owners do this [or that]"

Sorry you had a bad experience with a cop or two.

I had a bad experience with a blonde once. I'm still in love with one.


Peace - Sgt Lumpy
 
Sorry Lumpy but my wife was previously married to a man that became a police officer and so did his brother and nephew. They were all badge heavy in fact one is involved in the case in Temple, Texas that you may have heard about. She worked for a police department in a rather large Texas town I won't name and she said that more than one old line police officer told her that when you hear the statistic about 10% making the other 90% look bad that the figures were backwards. In case you're wondering she worked for this police department many years before she married the future officer. I have much more respect for the state police than I do for locals, they seem to be able to talk to people as if they're humans unlike many locals. I've known many police in my life and show them respect when dealing with them but only get it back about half of the time. I am 60 and not some hot tempered kid. Her former husband once told her that he considered all citizens to be the enemy. His words.
 
Think about it a little bit. These guns are held for months or even years as evidence. In these current times of budget cuts , sequestration etc. is anybody claiming that the police come in to work one morning and say , "OK today we clean and oil all the guns in the evidence locker." There is no way that is ever happening. So you can say what you want about all cops or whatever, They are not cleaning your gun. Blued guns which are left alone for months or years rust. That is a fact. So yes they ALL rust! (Maybe your good stainless model will be ok ?)
 
Back on the original topic, I'm with Glenn. The markings on the gun would raise the value for me as long as I could verify the story behind them as being true. Supporting documents and a newspaper clipping of the story would be extra cool.

Sort of like a haunted house, a gun that has killed possesses a certain intrigue that can be found in very few places or things. Maybe I'm just weird like that, I also like antique clocks and Ouija boards. So to each his own.


Ivan
 
Sad that a firearm used in a pure case of self defense becomes treated like a murder weapon...There should be gun insurance, like when your car is in the shop, you get a loaner car, why not a loaner gun? :D


Seriously it doesn't surprise me at all. NYC isn't the friendliest firearm place in the world..No matter what side of the badge you are on.
 
Interesting how psychology works differently for different people. I wouldn't mind buying a gun with some inscription, providing I can save money. But I would never buy a gun used to kill people (even in self defense). Moreover, if I even had to kill someone with my gun, I would probably sell it afterwards. Bad karma... ;)
 
As a buyer, lacking a really notable story....not just some random SD shooting...it would devalue the gun.

"When siezing property for a criminal case.... the ciminal case has priority, not the property. And that only has evidentury value. After the case is over the property has only value as evidence in case of an appeal. Once the case is disposed of the property brcomes what ever it was before the criminal case..."

And there you have it. If you are the victim of a crime, plan on being victimized a second time by the police and courts. My uncle was minding his own business sleeping in his house when three gang bangers drove up from the city, broke in, and held a gun to his head while they robbed him. They were eventually caught and part of his property recovered. It was more than three years before any of his property was returned, and the couple firearms were pretty much ruined.

I do not buy that you have to permanently alter someone's property in such a was as to affect the value to protect chain of custody.
http://www.njlaws.com/chain.htm
Mark yes, a big visible number on the exposed surface of the gun affecting or destroying its value, no.
 
^^^^^^RIIIIIIGHT?^^^^^^

That it would have bad karma kinda goes down the "Guns are Evil" mentality that is far too prevalent;)
 
Well, if you want to follow that thought guns ARE evil. (of course it's people, not guns, which are just tools, but still...). In today's society guns are used in wars to kill, by bad guys to threaten and/or kill and by good guys to protect themselves which often leads to kill of a bad guy. And then there is a fairly small group of people who are using guns purely for the fun of hitting the center of the paper and I am one of them.
Will I draw the gun if I am in real danger? Most likely! But if I have to take human's life with it, afterwards it will be reminding me about it all the time. So, I wouldn't want that gun... Perhaps it's a strange philosophy, I am not preaching it. Just explaining my position in relation of OP question about the value of the gun.
 
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Had a truck stolen years ago that had a handgun in the door pocket.Got the truck back the next day, but the handgun was gone.

The police called me about a year later telling me to come and pick up the hand gun. When I got there they sais it had been used in a robbery,and the case was closed now. They handed it back to me clean and no marks on it, and it even had a full magazine and a round in the chamber!!
 
another thing to think about... were there finger prints on the gun ??? even if they were pulled, does a finger printing kit actually remove the finger prints, if not, maybe wiping down & oiling up a gun, may not be an option on any case that went to trial???

I'd think it in best interest to keep all evidence in as collected shape... if you went to trial, & were asked if a particular gun was yours, & it was all rusty, or if the gun had rusted beyond function, & in a murder trial, the gun goes into court in a "non firing" condition, a sharp lawyer may get someone off because the gun couldn't have killed someone, if it were rusted shut...

I'm good friends with several LEO's, & while the guns are tools, very few cops are enthusiasts, so one who is not an enthusiast reading this thread is pretty unlikely... enthusiasts could understand the value of a particular weapon... cops who are not enthusiasts are not likely to care about any collectability of some old steel gun, that got all crusty, or got extra numbers engraved in it... if the gun were a new M&P or Glock, it wouldn't have rusted like that old piece of crab... 1911, & as a tool, extra numbers don't effect the usefulness or effectiveness of their tools
 
Just like good evidence handling practice, consider marking your OWN guns in a less than obvious spot with your initials and something like date of birth. Unless your name is "Steve Watson" or "Sam Wellington"..:)

Also, if the gun has serial numbers, frame numbers, cyl numbers, other markings that differ, record them all. If it's ever stolen, when it gets entered into NCIC as a stolen gun, it might not be the ser# that they enter or that gets run later when found. If you are able to report all the various numbers, and your OAN (Owner Applied Number - could be letters and/or numbers) and all those numbers are entered, it's more likely to get a hit if run later. Zat make sense? Say your gun's stolen today and they enter your serial number (only) as stolen. A year from now, a beat cop runs the frame number (different from the ser#). If that frame number wasn't entered initially, the gun won't return as stolen.

Those of you who you think every LEO in the universe is out to get you and steal your guns, feel free to disregard the above suggestions.


Sgt Lumpy
 
I had a car break in about 20 years ago, items taken were some tools, a baby car seat and a 25 cal Raven semi auto. the police asked me for the serial number of the gun which I had. about a year later the police called me and said they recovered the gun and I could come a pick it up. it had a couple of scratches were the gang banger kicked it under the car but otherwise in good shape. never thought I would get it back, I guess it pays to keep records.
 
I agree with Sgt. Lumpy about recording gun information. This is especially true for German Lugers and P.38's, where many guns can have the same serial number, and registration/sales records often show only the number, not the suffix, maker or date. If a Luger seized in a crime has that number, the legal owner(s) of every Luger with that serial number will be questioned.

And that often doesn't help the innocent person. During the investigation of the so-called "beltway sniper", a MD county police force seized every .223/5.56"assault rifle" in their files (such guns had to be registered at sale) for "investigation". In cases where the police found a woman at the home and the gun belonged to her husband (or SO), they made every effort to get her to surrender the weapon*; a surprising number did so with unknown results when the man came home and found his wife/SO had turned his gun over to the police for destruction.

*Community property state.

Jim
 
Another similar was the "SON OF SAM" serial killer investigation. Every .44 bulldog in NYC was tested, than the regon, then the state, then Jersey... They went beyond the bulldogs and tested other brands as well. Because the investigation was limited to one model of one manufacture it was a fairly easy task. Though it made me nervous to see the extent of the firearms record keeping.
 
I had a pistol removed from my house once by police. Long story short after court date and exonerated, I asked for it back. Jumped through a few hoops, + letter from judge and it was returned. Was still in good shape, no marks and still have 15 years later.
 
As a side note, I wonder how it ever got to be okay to damage someone's property??? If the manufacturer, model and serial number is enough for the ATF to track it from manufacture through retail purchase, it should be plenty for ANY investigating agency.
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Its been done that way for a long time. Perry Mason's LT Tragg (or was it Trask?) was often asked on the stand to ID a gun, and always pointed out how it "had his mark" on it.

The reason has been well explained by other posts. Not every police dept does it, but most do. Electric engraving pencils have just made it easy for them to mark the guns in what we consider defacing ways.

I'd like to point out, that, while we always think of it as our property, that they are holding, they don't see it that way. It is evidence. ITs not our property when its evidence. We have a legal claim after it is no longer evidence, but its not ours until we get it back.

Other items are not treated the same was as firearms, when it comes to their return. Books, art, electronics, cars, etc, they have no issues with returning them after they are no longer evidence. Many individual officers (including officers of the court, not just uniformed officers) tend strongly to disapproving of returning firearms, and in some places it is even policy not to. This is, of course, because you "let" them get stolen in the first place, and might do so again. They don't want them getting back on the street. Your concerns about your property (and its condition) are low on their priority lists.

There are some depts. and officers that do things the way they ought to be done, but sadly, I think they are in the minority.
 
As always, when police get on a pedestal, and decide whether a gun belonging to someone else should get "marked", destroyed, or delayed, or refused to be returned, they have forgotten who they work for, or how to "protect and serve". If they started losing their jobs over that, it would change.
 
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