Gun turn-in in Australia

seagiant said:
When they did the registration in Conn. I believe....

Gun Owners lined up like sheep!
JoeSixpack said:
Ya I remember seeing the picture of the line..
but when it was all said and done I think they estimated 2/3rds did not register.
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Data suggests that the CT compliance rate was actually much less than 1/3.

An analysis by the CT state gov't estimated that there were 231,000 (so-called) "high capacity" pistols, 372,000 high-capacity rifles, and 2.4 million high-capacity magazines in the state before the registration law passed. However, according to the NRA-ILA, Connecticut gun owners registered only 50,016 firearms and 38,290 magazines. Assuming that the CT state figures are valid, this represents a compliance rate of approximately 8.3% and 1.6%(!) respectively, based simply on the number of guns.

When one considers that some firearm owners presumably registered more than one gun and/or magazine, it's probable that the compliance rate per gun owner may be higher, but it's hard to estimate how much higher due to the huge apparent uncertainty in the numbers, and given the yawning gap, I'm guessing that the rate probably doesn't even approach 1/3.

Although some gun-rights absolutists may view the fact that anyone complied at all as a failure and a sign that CT gun owners are little girly men too feeble to stand up for their rights* (because AMERICA!!), by almost any conventional metric, IMHO it's obvious that the CT program has been a failure.

*As a footnote, when one is standing on the sidelines in another jurisdiction, it's all too easy to hurl accusations of weakness and lack of conviction at those who comply with onerous and unjust laws. To anyone making such accusations, I invite you to move to the restrictive jurisdiction, and see firsthand if you have the guts to flout the law yourself.
 
Auto-loading Shotguns 63,012 32.7%
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Think Winchester 1400 or Browning Auto-5 when you view that. Given the decidedly un-military character of other guns turned in, it's safe to assume there were few SPAS-12 types.
 
It's easier for people to violate laws as a form of political protest when the penalty is a misdemeanor and a fine.

Until and unless, the courts find the law null & void, it IS the law. And when violating the law means a felony conviction, jail time, a fine, and LOSS of ALL your guns, and the legal ability to own guns FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, its tough to find people who will volunteer to be "test cases".

As law abiding gun owners, we pride ourselves on obeying the law, despite the fact that we disagree with many of them.

Obeying the law is NOT moral cowardice. Doing nothing to change or eliminate a bad law, is.
 
It's easier for people to violate laws as a form of political protest when the penalty is a misdemeanor and a fine.

Until and unless, the courts find the law null & void, it IS the law. And when violating the law means a felony conviction, jail time, a fine, and LOSS of ALL your guns, and the legal ability to own guns FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, its tough to find people who will volunteer to be "test cases".

As law abiding gun owners, we pride ourselves on obeying the law, despite the fact that we disagree with many of them.
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Very well spoken, and exactly what I have told a person near to me who was complaining about a state registry. Especially since they were in the state on military service and would likely PCS in 2 or 3 years. Buy a gun and register with that state... as in 3 years it won't matter. Or wait 3 years when you move to a more pro-2A location. 3 years of waiting when you're young isn't much at all when compared to a felony conviction and being a prohibited person for life.
 
ATN082268 said:
Australia is pretty big and vast areas of it are uninhabited. I wonder how many guns illegally end up there...
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Perhaps not as many as you assume, considering that it's an island that's a considerable distance by water from any notably lawless countries. Weapons smuggling from the Middle East to Europe is considerably easier from a logistical standpoint.

Australia had fairly lax gun laws and high ownership rates only a few decades ago. The govt's main focus is presumably weapons stocks already in the country and originally purchased legally.
 
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G'day

A little bit of background history may clear some things up a some.

From the article.
Automatic – .1%, Center-fire self-loading – 3.2%, Pump action shotguns – 15.1%, Self-loading shotguns – 32.7%, Rimfires – 47.5%, other -1.8%.

The automatics came primarily from museums and RSL Clubs and were therefore a non-event. However, the “Center-fire self-loading” firearms were the primary target of the buy-back. The 3.2% are not broken down between military and civilian rifles, but note this, Victoria had registration prior to the “buy-back”, without registration the level of compliance would have been lower. So what do the figures show us? It shows that almost half of the firearms turned in were lousy .22 pea rifles, a rifle that not one nation in the world issues to its solders because of its anaemic power. The figures also show that 47.8% of the rifles were shotguns, a firearm that Hitler allowed the occupied French to keep.

In Victoria prior to this event. None of the Automatics that came from places like Museums were in operating condition. Earlier state laws had banned these unless they had been deactivated. (Police inspection and Cirtification required fore each one). This also included semi auto Center-fire rifles except for limited special circumstances. Basically, the only Semi autos aloud in Victoria prior to this Buy Back beginning were Rim-fire and Shotguns.

The Government had previously stripped the "dangerous" rifles from the residents of that State. Except for people that were able to meet very strict requirements and prove they had an Occupational necessity.
 
What is interesting is frankly the data show Australia's mass confiscation had no affect on homicide or suicide rates at all

Looks like their decline in homicide was about 55% since their confiscation, while the US decline from its similar timed 1990's peaks was closer to 60%.

So the US and Australia had completely different phenomena and legal regime changes to gun laws, Australia guns, especially semi-auto guns, decreased, while US guns increased, and especially semi autos increased, and the us had a slightly larger drop in homicide.

Knowing a bit about stats and variables, think these two opposite tracks in independent variable with same result mean one has to look at other criminal justice and social variables that were the same as opposed to polar opposites.


There is one major change both made in the early 1990s: Both the US and Australia vastly increased their incarceration rates.

And incarceration rates are not just a correlation, they are slam dunk causal relationship. For example in my former home city 93% of perps had an arrest record prior to committing homicide, 80% had ten or more arrests -- and 91% of homicide victims did as well.
 
From FOAA
No amount of regulation will ever prevent a person, firearm owner or not, from committing suicide if that is what that person has determined to do
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Indeed, and Australia proved this. Here in the US we have gun lobby "researchers" disingenuously using the raw Australian suicide stats, when in fact numerous peer reviewed studies, in fact ever single study that look at it, found Australia introduced an amplification of suicide undercount, though misclassification as accident, of non firearms suicide exactly at that point.

Australia's ABS says it is invalid to use the numbers to establish trends because of this, but US and Australia's pro-gun control researchers do exactly that.

It is guns that are a key pivot point on that suicide undercount for a known reason. Gun suicide is estimated to be in the range of 95% to 99% properly recorded as suicide because of assumptions made by medical examiners.

Virtually no gun suicides are misclassified as "accidental self caused death" or "undetermined."

Self-caused death ruled "accidental" from overdose, poisoning, falls, several kinds of drowning, driving into static objects, etc are established in the peer reviewed literature worldwide, and in Australia, to contain 30% to 50% suicides that result in large suicide undercounts.

And where would you see the undercount be amplified the most showing a false decline in suicide :With a sharp decrease in access to guns.

Australia's "accidental death" that was "self caused accidental death" in fact rose right at the point where the confiscation occurred.

Moreover, Australia's gun control was actually harmful to the ends of reducing suicide, since was asserted to be successful when it was not, distracting from actual private and public health polices that might actually help.
 
Once you cross the line to "felon" why should you care? What will they do, charge you with another (bogus) felony for doing something that is even ethically a good thing (taking responsibility for self defense). Pretty dumb policies, at some point will reap what they sow.
 
It's a success but most guns are rubbish
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Agree with your sarcasm on asserted "success."

  • Australia overall reduces guns, and greatly reduces the number and proportion that are semi auto: homicide rate goes down 54% since 1990's peak
  • US overall increases guns, and increase the number and proportion that are semi auto: US Homicide rate goes down 58% since 1990's peak

Two polar opposite changes in amounts and types of guns, same effect. Where I come from that means the asserted casualty is absurd.

So the question is not: what did both Australia and the US do that was different? The valid question is: what did they do that was the same?
Answer: They both substantially (x to 3x) increased imprisonment/incarnation rates since the 1990's.
 
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