gun suggestion for sister

Opinion without much experience is more likely.
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It is fine to think that after reading my post, but I have owned or shot revolvers of varying size in multiple calibers (from .22 to .357). I'm not too sure what "qualifies" one to speak on self defense though, do I have to stop five different attackers with lethal force, in separate occasions before I have the experience?

The question initially asked was on gun suggestions (or opinions). If a J Frame works well for you, that is great... And I mean that with absolutely no sarcasm. If you want to suggest a revolver, go for it. In the end I'm sure the sister will find something to suit her needs.

I'm not arguing that revolvers are a very complex design requiring a bunch of thought to shoot. I'm sure most people here agree that operation is simple. Pull the trigger, it goes bang... But the same can be said for a Glock (or similar pistol). No manual safeties to worry about, reloads require less thought, greater magazine capacity, and a shorter/lighter trigger than something on a J Frame. The Glock trigger pro could be a con for some people though, and that is why choices are great.

You mention that SA is the preferred way to engage a threat (which I agree). If that is the case, why "handicap" yourself with long DA pulls when you could choose something else? Personally I doubt many of us would bother to switch to SA if our lives were in immediate danger. Another option for that perferred means of carry would be a DA/SA pistol. At least with those you have the benefit of SA after the first shot. Note that I truly do not advocate one form or the other, as I have changed a few times myself (SA 1911 to striker to DA/SA).
 
If that is the case, why "handicap" yourself with long DA pulls when you could choose something else?
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What?

Personally I doubt many of us would bother to switch to SA if our lives were in immediate danger.
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I do. And that is what I recommend anyone do. Train and you shall perform the same.

Another option for that perferred means of carry would be a DA/SA pistol. At least with those you have the benefit of SA after the first shot. Note that I truly do not advocate one form or the other, as I have changed a few times myself (SA 1911 to striker to DA/SA).
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Well, having trained a few women in the art of handgunning I learned early on to not give personal opinions on gun choices. I demonstrate and explain the method to operate them, both automatics and revolvers. Before sending rounds down range 9 times out of 10 women will select the automatic over a revolver. After a few rounds down range I have them switch, when done we ask for a comparison. We normally get "I like both", okay. Now we go over the slide operation and loading of the magazines verses the revolver. [This is all hands on training.] Now I've got a few women who have difficulty operating the slide and loading magazines, they want to switch with the women that wanted to stick with the revolvers. After several rounds down range, the women that have insisted on the automatic are a little done with the drill. The women that decided on the revolver still has their nails intact and have placed nice shots on target. :eek:

Go figure.
 
Maybe you should read the OP and place the emphasis on the word "sister."
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Done.

Nothing changed- "sister" ..... brother, cousin, or monkeys' uncle, the important words were "She is a first time shooter," yet you suggest a tiny DA revolver because it is "simpler" .... implying that the new shooter, particularly a female, can't manage something with more than one or two controls, or can become proficient with a j-frame faster than they could anything else..... and then you add that they should shoot it single action in an emergency.....

Where do you teach this?
 
My daughter prefers a 32 H&R magnum snub. The recoil is no problem at all, accuracy is good, it is small and relatively light.

I am a revolver guy. I have taught men, women, and kids how to shoot handguns. Almost all have preferred revolvers, even though I have autos of many different sizes and calibers. I haven't tried to push revolvers. Whatever they like is fine with me. However, it's certainly possible that I influenced them subconsciously without meaning to. When I read a post about someone else's students preferring semi-autos, I can't help wondering if they might have also been influencing people towards their own personal preference, subconsciously or otherwise.

Also, I can never fathom why anyone would choose 22 for SD over 32 S&W long. Maybe because of availability and price of ammo, or because most stores don't sell 32 revolvers anymore.
 
You get one with a external or shrouded hammer and let them practice in SA, the preferred method to engage a target.
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Emphasis added. If she wants to be a precision target shooter, she will shoot single action with its 2-3 lb crisp trigger pull.
I do NOT want to encourage somebody to shoot a defensive weapon single action even in training and practice. I know two instances where habitual thumb cocking of a revolver led to holes in household goods when done while checking out a bump in the night. You do not want to get startled with a cocked revolver in your hand. Or try to decock one when you consider the threat has abated.

At least a SAO automatic has a thumb safety that can be kept engaged until the shoot decision.

The REAL point is that the serious pistol user must study and practice their weapon. Each type has its own requirements.
 
My daughter prefers a 32 H&R magnum snub. The recoil is no problem at all, accuracy is good, it is small and relatively light.

I am a revolver guy. I have taught men, women, and kids how to shoot handguns. Almost all have preferred revolvers, even though I have autos of many different sizes and calibers. I haven't tried to push revolvers. Whatever they like is fine with me. However, it's certainly possible that I influenced them subconsciously without meaning to. When I read a post about someone else's students preferring semi-autos, I can't help wondering if they might have also been influencing people towards their own personal preference, subconsciously or otherwise.

Also, I can never fathom why anyone would choose 22 for SD over 32 S&W long. Maybe because of availability and price of ammo, or because most stores don't sell 32 revolvers anymore.
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Can you tell me who makes a modern (last 75 years) snub in 32 h&r or 32 s&w? To me this is a serious question. I too think this may get help out some lady friends. I have powerful athletic lady friends, but there are others whom I believe will always struggle with big guns, big trigger pulls and calipers over 38 special....
 
Charter Arms makes a 32 H&R snub called the Undercoverette. Mine has yet to malfunction after many hundreds of rounds.

Ruger makes the SP101 in 327 - mine is 4", but I think they are available in other lengths as well. They also make the newer polymer framed revolver in 327. Revolvers in 327 Federal magnum will also fire 32 S&W short, 32 S&W long, or 32 H&R magnum. Some 32 magnums will fire 32acp and some won't, depends on the particular firearm. It is perfectly safe to fire these lower pressure rounds in a 327 revolver. Some people say that they are theoretically less accurate with other ammo, but I have never noticed this myself (though mine won't shoot 32acp, so I am not sure about that one).

Ruger also has made batches of single action (Single Seven?) 327 revolvers, which are still available brand-new sometimes. They used to make a Single Six in 32H&R - I am picking up a used one today.

In the used market, IIRC S&W and Taurus have made small revolvers in 32 H&R and in 327, though they are not easy to find.

To get the feel for the caliber cheaply, I haunted Gunbroker for a while and got two H&R/NEF snubs for less than $150 apiece. These were inexpensive revolvers which are all 25-35 years old. I wouldn't necessarily choose one for SD, but both of mine were barely fired before I got them and function perfectly.

EVERYONE used to make revolvers in 32 S&W/S&W long. No one seems to want them anymore. You can find bunches of them on Gunbroker for cheap.
 
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I guess I will say what I always say:

1. Family training family is not the best idea, esp. if the family are not professionals. There is more to it than pointing at a B-27.

2. The J's are hard to shoot and take practice.


As far as some gun comments - with real training most guns can be handled unless they don't fit your hand. I've seen 11 and 14 year old girls shoot Glock 19s very well and they were about 5'4".

From my experience, the Glock 42 is an easy gun to shoot. The LCP is a palm stinger.

Here's the deal - what level of usage are you looking for? Is it wave the gun at the mugger and probably never use it? Shoot the burglar at 5 feet? Or is it use the gun in an intense, critical incident at variable distance?

Most folks go for the first and 'train' the person at the square range. I would tell my relative that I'm getting them a gun and a reasonable professional course.
 
First off, the J frames have never been difficult to master. Geez!

I've seen 11 and 14 year old girls shoot Glock 19s very well and they were about 5'4".
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While your comment might be true that isn't the only point when it comes to handgun selection, loading magazines and racking slides is a necessity as well as shooting them. Geez!
 
After 16 years of shooting experience which includes attending multiple classes taught by many other instructors, and 14 years of teaching experience which includes helping hundreds of other people (men and women) fire their first shots and also work on more advanced self defense skills, here are my thoughts about a first gun:

1) I have literally never met a healthy, adult woman who could not be taught to easily rack the slide with just five minutes or less of competent instruction. Some guns are easier than others and some women more easily befuddled than others, but using a simple, strength enhancing technique works for everyone. (I've also met a lot of women and some men who thought they could not rack a slide, because they had never been taught that simple technique. It's common and it's easy to fix with just a few minutes of work.)

2) I have often met women who did not have the finger / hand strength to pull the trigger in DA mode on a revolver, or who could not do so often enough to manage regular and realistic practice. There are work-arounds for the range (use two fingers for more strength, adjust your hand so it's lower on the grip and you get more leverage, cock the hammer), but all of these have limitations and the last one in particular is a very, very bad idea for a self-defense plan. That should probably be a separate thread, which I will happily participate in if someone else starts it in the training forum which is where that type of discussion should go.

3) For those who struggle with filling magazines, I strongly recommend an Uplula loading tool and keeping the magazines filled so they are ready to go. No need to fill mags in a hurry and the tool makes it possible to fill hi-cap mags all day long without hurting your thumbs.

4) Most shooters find semi-automatics much easier to shoot, with better results on target. Many find revolvers more fun and more appealing. (And many of us enjoy both! -- but we're talking here about guns on which to learn.)

5) Tiny little lightweight guns generally suck for new shooters. This is true whether they are revolvers or semi-autos. Short sight radius, vestigial sights, nasty slappy recoil, and more. The trade off of the gun being easy to carry makes them ideal for experienced shooters, but they tend to create bad habits in the newbies. With semi-autos, add problems with manipulating too-small controls and stiff springs that make it less pleasant to rack the slide, and with revolvers, add the long and heavy DA trigger.

6) For new shooters willing to accept direction from an experienced other who has successfully taught many people to shoot, I'd recommend starting with a midsize semi-auto from the big three: M&P, Glock, XD. Choose the one that fits your hand best (and no, that doesn't mean "feels" best -- see this re fitting the gun to the hand) to make it easiest to learn well. Avoid the smallest lightweights to begin with, knowing that you can later move to a smaller gun when you have your shooting skills well in hand. Performing a lot of practice with a difficult-to-use little gun tends to create bad habits that will be difficult to erase later. It's much, much easier to trade in the gun you learned on when you're ready to move down, than it will be to erase bad habits deeply built in by choosing an inappropriate gun for the learning process.

pax
 
You seem to be really hung up on loading magazines. If someone could not load a magazine with all the time in the world, I doubt they would be able to pull the trigger on a DA revolver (while on target). Even 10 round magazines can be loaded to eight easily, while still carrying more than a revolver. Strength to rack the slide I get, but magazines? And easy to master? Compared to what, an LCP? Again I like revolvers (just shot a Ruger LCR this morning), but every platform has strengths and weaknesses.

I get it, you don't like semi autos for a first time gun. But acting like revolvers have no weakness does not help someone make a logical decision. I would also imagine your bias shows through in training as well. Small sample size sure (being one), but my wife who hated ALL guns could not have ended up further from the women you trained. She left the range with all nails intact, and I left with two new Glocks... my first ever Glock purchase, so I certainly didn't push her one way or another.
 
For clarity - the 11 year old and 14 year old, racked the slides and reloaded as well as anyone. They reloaded their mags between stages without trouble.

This was compared to an older man who couldn't reload his gun without scaring the crap out of us.

For grins, when my daughter (who is little) was 14, I had her try to rack my Glock 19 and she did it with ease and said -So what? She also preferred shooting that gun to a 642.

Pax explained it so well.
 
First and foremost; let it be HER choice. Renting the types she's interested in before buying makes a lot of sense.

As to the choice between a semi-auto vs. a revolver, I'd say she'd be better off with a revolver if she can handle the rather heavy double action trigger pull. Here's why; it's much simpler in its controls; ie. no mag to drop, fill or lose, no safety to mess with if she really needs to use it for defensive purposes, no slide to rack.

Get a quality j-frame: S&W is my choice. .38 Special is fine and all of Smith's J-frames are now ok with +P ammunition to my knowledge. Hammerless makes the gun easier to stow in a pocket or purse, and fixed sights too, for the same reason. A 2" (actually a 1-7/8") barrel makes it easy to stow but harder to hit beyond 10 yds or so because of the short inter-sight distance.

I personally like the 3" models in all steel construction, adj. sights and greater accuracy, but an alloy frame, shorter bbl'd model makes it a pocket pistol. The all steel ones are really too heavy for all but a parka pocket.

A good j-frame is the king of self-defense carry handguns in my opinion, and I carry both autos as well as j-frames. But for a new shooter, a steel framed j-frame with a good OWB holster to fit it makes perfect sense.

HTH's Rod
 
Disagree with rodfac.

The j-frame revolver is an expert's gun, not appropriate for beginners because of its short sight radius, vestigial sights, heavy trigger, and nasty recoil. Beginners who learn on j-frames (and other small guns, particularly lightweight ones but including steel for the super-small guns) tend to develop a deeply engrained, hard to eliminate flinch pattern that can remain a problem for years. There's no doubt that all-steel construction mitigates the problem, but it does not solve it.

Here's a link to an article that explains what a newcomer is giving up in self defense capability when they choose a gun too small for their experience level:

www.corneredcat.com/speed-and-accuracy-with-small-guns/

www.usconcealedcarry.com/is-a-pocket-gun-enough/

pax
 
My choice

For a female, first time firearm user. The S&W M&P Shield, 9MM. Good sights, good weight, controllable recoil, not too hard to rack the slide, not too expensive, has a safety, lots of good CC ammo, good company and a very reliable firearm. What not to like ?
 
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