Gun store gripe

[tangolima]

I live in the same town as metalgod does. There are a few stores I will not go in, till perhaps they are under new management.

Ain't that true good mom and pop shops are disappearing? What left are the not-so-good ones. Honest ones simply can't compete with the internet. The not-so-good ones have to do the not-so-good things to stay afloat. Perhaps. It is my theory anyway.

Actually it is foolish trying to stop the tide, instead of riding it. There are local stores doing just fine working with the internet. Those are the ones I frequent.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[buck460XVR]

If what you say is true, then you are not over-reacting.

However...

There's a difference if the shop owner is giving suggestions from his own experience(as in the lee Dies) or if in fact he is intentionally lying and misleading. Your buddies did not have to buy the 2#s of powder or the gun with the 1 in 12 twist. Did you not inspect your XD45 compact set before you paid your monies and filled out the transfer? Was it not noticeable that the set did not include the holster or extra mag? Did the owner tell you they were included or did you just assume they were? Were you mislead or just mistaken? We can whine about paying too much, but unlike taxes, we don't have to buy guns. While we have a choice of what we want to pay, we also need to know what we're buying before we put the money on the table. Otherwise it's our bad.

The shop may be high priced and the owner a ornery, egotistical bloke who thinks he's God's gift to gun shops.......but folks that buy from him still have a choice. My choice would be to walk away unless they had something I could not get anywhere else. High prices, poor customer service, little inventory and a reluctance to order non-stocked items is a big turn off to me, regardless of how much I want to support local small businesses. But if I buy a firearm without knowing what's in the box when I walk out the door, it's my fault, not the shop owner. If I buy something other than what I intentionally wanted because I'm too impatient to go somewhere else and get what I really want, shame on me. If my buddy suggests one firearm and a shop owner suggests another, I have to rely on my trust of either's knowledge or lack of such. If that trust is incorrect, than again, shame on me.

 

[octalman]

Brick & Mortar stores of all kinds are having a tough time competing with on-line. Struggling to keep the lights on is not going to make a gun store owner cheerful. You might talk to the owner directly about an incentive agreement for business you send him. Arrange something ahead of time instead of just telling a buddy to say you sent him in. Showing up with a few buddies that make a purchase might help imprint you face in the owner's memory.

Not sure what kind of service or "deals" you expect based on purchases over 1 1/2 years that generate enough income to pay for a couple hours of electricity.

 

[Metal god]

Your buddies did not have to buy ............. the gun with the 1 in 12 twist.

Nope but the guy explained how he did not need the 1-9 and had the 1-12 . My buddy is not as knowledgeable about such things and would not have even known to ask for something like that . So when the "OWNER" says you don't need that and as far as my buddy knows the guns are the same and he does not have to wait for the 1-9 because he's got the 1-12 in his hands . I'm sure it was quite hard to say no for him at that point .

Did you not inspect your XD45 compact set before you paid your monies and filled out the transfer?

No I asked if he had any in stock and he told me he just ordered them and they should be in with the next shipment . I asked how much , he gave the price . I had been looking at this firearm for a year+ so I knew what they were going for . I put a down payment down to hold the gun right then and there , and on the receipt it did not say Essentials pkge which for the price it should not be . Seemed up & up so far . Couple weeks pass gun still not in but I have the rest of the money so I pay it off . ( I have other XD handguns , LOVE them ) so I had no problem paying sight unseen . It came in about a week later and it was then upon first inspection I see there is no holster or mag pouch . I asked right away about that . I'm not going to get into the back and forth . Lets just say I excepted not getting them and took the firearm .

Could I have caused a big stick ? yep but I chose not to . The fact I was willing to except the transaction does not mean I have to like it or forget it happened . I just packed the experience away in the "that was kinda messed up" vault in the back of my mind just like all the other stuff . There seems to be a straw that broke the camels back and that appears to be the Lee dies interaction .

It was never just one thing that caused me to ask these questions here . It's several things over a couple years that finally got to me .

 

[TruthTellers]

Brick & Mortar stores of all kinds are having a tough time competing with on-line. Struggling to keep the lights on is not going to make a gun store owner cheerful. You might talk to the owner directly about an incentive agreement for business you send him. Arrange something ahead of time instead of just telling a buddy to say you sent him in. Showing up with a few buddies that make a purchase might help imprint you face in the owner's memory.

Not sure what kind of service or "deals" you expect based on purchases over 1 1/2 years that generate enough income to pay for a couple hours of electricity.

He's asking for his local guy to give him a fair deal that he could have gotten for even less money at another store and they would have given him a magazine pouch and holster.

I remember looked at the XD's years ago and thought I saw all XD's came with the holster and crappy magazine pouch. The OP didn't even get either of them for $45 or $80 more.

The Redding dies over Lee dies for a beginner? No... you don't do that to a beginning reloader, especially when he was likely charging $90 for the Reddings. What do used Redding dies sell for these days? $40? Quite a loss if someone finds out reloading isn't for them.

I don't expect deals from my local guys because, like I've said, pricing in gun stores is meant for new shooters who don't shop on value, they shop on what they see in store and how it feels and what they've heard on TV, radio, etc.

"A Glock is $750? Sounds about right, everyone uses them, they're quality and dependable!"

We know better, we know used Glocks are just as good and cost half as much. We know where to go to get 33 rd Glock mags for less than $50.

Honestly, I get the feeling the FFL's may like us gun nuts personally because we speak the same language, but businessly, they hate us even though they see us about 10 times more a year then they do an average customer.

One of my FFL's, I've heard the owner say once when I went in to buy primers, referencing me when he saw me said, "Jesus, that guy gets a lot of transfers."

It's true, I've probably had him do 5 FFL transfers last year, all on used handguns that are no longer made. Besides a police trade in Glock with 3 mags and night sights, what does he expect me to do when I see guns that you can't order from a distributor? Giving him $125 bucks last year to call in do normal 4473 stuff and accept a package from UPS is unfair to him? He's not gonna have the guns in stock I wanted and if he does, he'll charge the same price as new ones.

After over a year he still has a used Hi Point in his case with $200 on the tag. Not joking.

I like him, he's been shooting longer than I've been living, and there's not much he can do to get more of my business other than saying thanks for being a customer for almost 4 years and I'm not saying I expect it from my two FFL's I frequent, but when the appreciation is shown, like if someone says, "I appreciate your business." I appreciate it to.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

 

[TruthTellers]

Metal god, when it comes to the XD package, you're right to be upset, but it's up to you to make sure of what you are getting. If the receipt didn't say essentials and the owner didn't tell you essentials and that you would get the pouch and holder, that's on you.

I would have backed out on the price alone because I've learned, for whatever reason, that when I spend more than needed, I literally get less out of it. I buy clothes at Walmart not because they're cheap, but because they're better than Sears, cheaper, and they last longer too.

I'm in the ME business because nobody else is in the ME business, they're in the THEIR business. Very rarely do you find someone who helps you in the ME business, but when you do, that's when you show some appreciation and help them in THEIR business.

Sometimes that's as simple as talking to them at the store like a person, chatting about the new owner of the store and both agreeing that some things are better and some aren't.

Sometimes when you're really busy and just starting out and when you pick up your new shotguns and buy some 12 gauge slugs and the guy gives you a box of sabot slugs and you don't have the barrel to shoot it out of your shotgun and he knows the shotgun you just bought doesn't have the right barrel either and it cost $15 for 5 shells... yeah, that's the type of business I don't like.

And I didn't go back to that store for almost 2 years. My mistake? Yes, because I trusted Mr. Nice Guy. Can't always trust Mr. Nice Guy, but you can trust the guy that gives you free stuff because he's seen you twice a month for the past year and he gave you that free stuff because you've been having a lot of trouble with the service lately.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

We keep looking for other stuff and I notice he has no Lee dies . I look at my buddy and say they don't have them here we can get them off amazon . The owner over heard me and steps in from working with the other customer , what you looking for . I tell him and he says "Lee's" are made in china and I've had more of those retuned then anything else . Here's a set of Redding 9mm dies , these are great dies .

Your post got me to wondering, so I contacted Lee.

We are thankful to say Lee Precision products are cast, machined and assembled in the USA.

Thank You,
Raquel

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027

So ... we could be charitable and assume the gun store guy made an honest mistake, or we could be skeptical and decide that he lied.

I know what I believe.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Metal god, when it comes to the XD package, you're right to be upset, but it's up to you to make sure of what you are getting. If the receipt didn't say essentials and the owner didn't tell you essentials and that you would get the pouch and holder, that's on you.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. I've been dealing with the same FFL at the same range for almost 20 years. It's a small-ish, informal place, and often I'll pull up a chair near the counter and kibbitz for awhile before and/or after shooting. He keeps new guns in a glass display case, but the box, case, and accessories are back in the storage area. If a new gun comes with two magazines, a cleaning it, and a clamshell box, he doesn't write all that on the receipt. He writes the make and model of firearm, and the serial number. It's understood that what came with the gun, goes with the gun.

Whatever a manufacturer ships a gun with should be included when it's sold new, and it's not necessary to enumerate the accessories on the receipt. Ever buy a new car? Did the dealer write "spare tire" on the bill of sale?

 

[buck460XVR]

Nope but the guy explained how he did not need the 1-9 and had the 1-12 . My buddy is not as knowledgeable about such things and would not have even known to ask for something like that . So when the "OWNER" says you don't need that and as far as my buddy knows the guns are the same and he does not have to wait for the 1-9 because he's got the 1-12 in his hands . I'm sure it was quite hard to say no for him at that point .

My understanding is that the 1-9 version was a short term limited production model, and may have been impossible to even get at the time. That could be something the owner said also. Could be the owner is like me and assumes folks that don't know a gun well enough to know what difference twist rates make, aren't gonna make many 300+ yard shots anyways, and when they do, the difference in twist is not a factor.

No I asked if he had any in stock and he told me he just ordered them and they should be in with the next shipment . I asked how much , he gave the price . I had been looking at this firearm for a year+ so I knew what they were going for . I put a down payment down to hold the gun right then and there , and on the receipt it did not say Essentials pkge which for the price it should not be . Seemed up & up so far . Couple weeks pass gun still not in but I have the rest of the money so I pay it off . ( I have other XD handguns , LOVE them ) so I had no problem paying sight unseen . It came in about a week later and it was then upon first inspection I see there is no holster or mag pouch . I asked right away about that . I'm not going to get into the back and forth . Lets just say I excepted not getting them and took the firearm .

Again, your choice. Hard for any LGS owner to know what comes with every model, especially in kits like XD has. The fact that they have different kits containing the same model firearm for a variety of prices can be confusing even for someone who is a fanboy. Many times with distributor special runs, P.C./Custom Shop options, there's just too many too know all of them. The owner knew you wanted the gun, he did not know your main concern was the specific kit...or did he?

If a new gun comes with two magazines, a cleaning it, and a clamshell box, he doesn't write all that on the receipt. He writes the make and model of firearm, and the serial number. It's understood that what came with the gun, goes with the gun.

Whatever a manufacturer ships a gun with should be included when it's sold new, and it's not necessary to enumerate the accessories on the receipt. Ever buy a new car? Did the dealer write "spare tire" on the bill of sale?

But the dealer did include everything that came in the box, with the gun. It just was not the specific "kit".

I'm not taking the dealers side. Just from being in business for myself over the years I've found most of the time the confusion/misunderstanding comes from both sides when things are not always clearly spelled out/written down. If the dealer is a constant pain in the arse and does not have good prices, customer service or people skills, the only intelligent thing to do is to go somewhere else. Pretty simple.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

But the dealer did include everything that came in the box, with the gun. It just was not the specific "kit".

I don't know how Springfield packages the XD "kits." When I have seen their 1911s that include a holster and magazine carrier, the holster and mag pouch are right in the clamshell case with the gun and magazines. Further, there is usually an outer sleeve or box that wears a label identifying the model, and that would say whether the contents were just the gun and mag, or the "kit." If the gun is being bought new, it should include all factory packaging, so that would tell you what you're supposed to be getting.

As in this photo of an EMP:

 

[2ndsojourn]

From AB:
"Ever buy a new car? Did the dealer write "spare tire" on the bill of sale?"


New cars are starting to come without a spare tire.

(Back to our regularly scheduled program.)

 

[Jim Watson]

You better give the stores some business.
You need somebody to paper the guns you get Internet Deals on. Bud's can't ship to your doorstep.

 

[TruthTellers]

You better give the stores some business.
You need somebody to paper the guns you get Internet Deals on. Bud's can't ship to your doorstep.

If the two choices are of being able to buy guns is spending $215 on a used Hi Point or $800 on a new Glock, taxes included, or not being able to buy guns... there's not much difference.

I refuse to buy a Hi Point the same prices as a new Ruger EC9s and I can't buy an $800 Glock.

I give my FFL's business when I can, usually when I do a transfer, which I pay for btw, I'll buy a box of ammo or a pound of a new powder I've never used before.

I've never seen a gun shop totally close. These FFL's have been in the business, being their own boss, for too long. They're not gonna close shop to go work for someone else so they can get a few grand more a year.

 

[Metal god]

I did not know of the limited run on the 1-9 twist . I still would bet ( knowing how this guy is ) he did not even look it up because he had the 1-12 there to sell .

As far as the holster and mag holder . This is likey his SOP because he has a table that has all kinds of randon things on it . I’ve seen on more then one occasion holters and mag holders in zip lock bags with the priceand new written on the bag .

Anyways , like I said this is not just one thing . This is many different instances where I felt unhapppy with the service or experience. I don’t think any one of those things really bothers me , it’s the whole of my experiences there that has turned me off

 

[jersurf101]

The days of the snarky gun store owner/clerk acting as if it is your privelege to be in the presence of their shop are fading fast. I have been talked down to, derided for my lack of knowledge and just generally felt unwelcome over the years in certain stores. Other gun shops are welcoming and helpful. Guess which ones I patronize? Nevermind buying online from a reputable dealer that will likely be less expensive.

I am not in Socal so I can't imagine what it's like to try to get guns, ammo or accessories there. I certainly would not shop at a gun shop like you describe here in NC.

 

[reynolds357]

My question is , am I over reacting . Is this just a simple , if your dumb enough to listen to me I'll sell you what ever you'll buy ? Maybe I just want the old mom & pops vibe that's just not there from this guy .]

If you don't like him, don't shop with him. Most gun dealers are like that now. You have a choice, the pushed salesman or the don't care big box folks. My dealer I always use told me tis week, "you don't want a versamax, you want a Beretta." I told him "No, I want a Versamax. The question is do you want to sell one or not?" He then said "I was just trying to help. The Beretta is almost a pound lighter." I said "Thanks, I am 6'6", 300 lbs. I don't care about a pound." The Versamaxis on the way. The Beretta was on the shelf. I can't blame him, that's just salesmanship.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I've never seen a gun shop totally close. These FFL's have been in the business, being their own boss, for too long. They're not gonna close shop to go work for someone else so they can get a few grand more a year.

Some are.

I have a friendly acquaintance who used to own a gun store. He got tired of the headaches, closed his store, and went into commercial property management.

 

[Metal god]

you don't want a versamax, you want a Beretta." I told him "No, I want a Versamax. The question is do you want to sell one or not?" He then said "I was just trying to help. The Beretta is almost a pound lighter.

If that was someone who knows me then that would be ok for them to start out like that but I think if it were me . Before telling you don't want something , I'd likely ask why is that your choice . You may very well have very good reasons not to want anything else .

It's interesting how some people think one thing is better based on something small . The biggest for me is buying tickets to a game or concert . You'll see best available is row 30 all the way to the side while there are center seats in row 31 . Just because it's a row closer doesn't automatically make them better . I'd rather be center stage in row 35 then way off to the side in row 30 .

Just found a new place in the east county . Going to check it out tomorrow at lunch because I'm work in that area this week .