Gun Shows & Illegal Sales

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Idaho02

New member
I go to quite a few gun shows each year, given by several different promoters. One is out of state. In all my experiences, I have NEVER seen or overheard anyone trying to sell any firearm illegally. Now if so much illegal activity supposedly goes on at gunshows wouldn't you think I would have at least witnessed ONE incident?
My contention is that gunshows are probably the last place firearms are sold illegally by the fact that they are so public.
What are your experiences? (Specifics not required).
 
These illegal gun deals - 99% of them are hype. I witnessed a private sale and then heard some one refer to the seller as the dealer. (Stupid people - Grrrr) I would like to review the case facts of these illegal deals going on so rampantly at gunshows. Its a HOAX. Gunshows have more LEOs around than a presidential motorcade. Most of them are undercover... Looking for illicit deals and dealers. So as a result - of coarse - they are all above board.

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
I took my 20 year old daughter to her first gun show last month. After walking around for a while, she made a comment about the people attending the show seeming rather "normal".
I jokingly responded that most of the skinheads, gangbangers and militiamen usually come on Sunday, after they've been to church.
Seriously though, as George pointed out, most of the gun shows I've been to are just crawling with LEOs and I can only think of one vendor (at a show many years ago) that I thought was kind of "out there".
I have never seen any kind of questionable activity going on.
Most of the people I see are everyday honest people who aren't even interested in acquiring anything of uncertain legality.
Interestingly, I saw and pointed out a small group of people who were attending the show who just happened to be several of the elders of our church.
 
My experiences with gun shows are similar with a single exception, which, to me, speaks in favor of gun shows rather than against them.

The exception was a non-FFL who apparently was "dealing" at gun shows. The problem was not with the purchasers, so I don't mean that this guy was selling to criminals. I mean he was apparently making a living by buying and selling guns on a regular basis at gun shows but didn't have an FFL. There may be a fine line as to what constitutes "dealing," but he seems to have crossed it.

Anyway, due to the public venue of gun shows, BATF was well aware of his activities and kept an eye on him. When he persisted, they arrested him for dealing without an FFL and he was convicted.

As Kodiac--I meant George :)--also suggests in his post, LEOs, including BATF, seem to monitor gun shows to whatever moderate extent they find necessary. Of course, the media never report this, because to do so would tend to refute all the sensationalism and propaganda about gun shows being unregulated arms bazaars for criminals.

My $0.02.


[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited September 24, 1999).]
 
I wish the media would portray the gun shows correctly. I am always having to disabuse my non-shooting friends and co-workers of the idea that anyone can get anything at a gun show. They really believe the hype. One lady was positive that you could buy explosives at one. Others think that it is cash and carry. Walk in, walk out no questions asked(I wish that part where true). Half believe only militia and rednecks go to these things. O' well all I can do is keep trying to educate them.
 
The gunshow normally held at the LA County fairgrounds was recently banned, partially, as a result of 5 arrests at the June show. They were arrested for all sorts of automatic weapons violations by, not the ATF who probably would have known better, but the state AG's office.

All but 1 of those arrested were cleared because the AG had made a mistake. The "machine guns" had been demilled to ATF specs as had been the "illegal rocket launchers." The one charge, for illegally selling a machinegun, occured in the suspect's home, not at the fairgrounds.

Now they have taken away my favorite event at the fairgrounds.
 
I remember the big deal made by the media about the State AG's boys buying a rocket launcher and "automatic weapons" at the show in SoCal. I can't seem to recall any articles pointing out their errors though.
hmmmm......
 
At my last gun show I was in line for a hotdog, speaking with a retired Phoenix LEO. His son walked up, and he's a county prosecutor. At the same show I saw another exec from a competing company. We all kid with each other about being 'gun nuts'. I mentioned that to this CFO I saw, and he said 'ya know, I don't even care anymore'.

I think many of us have really had it with the idiots who are currently running our society. Gun shows attract some characters, in my experience. But the problem is way, way overblown. Big surprise.
 
See, the REAL problem of Gun Shows isn't the guns...
It's that it is a GATHERING of GOOD HONEST PEOPLE who THINK FOR THEMSELVES... and to our Government and Media - this can NOT be Tolerated!

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
George Hill is right its all hype. The liberal media has given gun shows the portrayal of neo-nazi skinheads handing out M16's and handgrenades to middleschool children. The fact is the dealer and buyers at gun shows are law abiding citizens.
 
Idaho02:

There is an article debunking the rocket launcher and flame thrower sales at the CA gun show. The CA AG just out-and-out lied about it. The article is posted at the Claremont Institute's web site. The title is "The Gun Show Bugaboo And The Rocket Launcher Myth" written by Ben Boychuk. You can hear an interview with Boychuk (dated 09/22) via RealPlayer at the NRA website.

Speaking of untruths being the SOP of the anti-gunners, did anybody catch Ken Hamblin's show last night (Thurs, 10/23)? I cringed as he interviewed some gun-grabbing woman. I think Ken is great, but he was WAY too easy on her. She started off saying something very much like: "nobody can deny that any felon off the streets can go into a gun show and LEGALLY buy all manner of guns and then just walk out." (emphasis on LEGALLY is mine) I just about threw my radio out the window. We see this type of thing over and over again. The gun-grabbers seem to have no ethics or compuction about lying. Or maybe it is a Liberal thing (well, consider their role model, Clinton).
 
Being relatively new to this, I've been to only a few gun shows. Aside from all the neat hardware, they bordered on boring in their normalcy - no skinheads, gangbangers or swarthy-criminal looking types (whatever the hell that means), and I was looking.

There were abundant LEO's (active and retired, a couple in uniform) around, so I doubt that there were many 'known' crimals doing much shopping. It was mostly hunters, sports shooters, and folks like myself. There were some bubbas/good ole boys (it was rural VA), but all were very nice and cordial to a fault (no rednecks). Being new and curious, I talked with a lot of people, asked a lot of questions, and like I said, just normal, friendly gun enthusiasts. I did see some full auto stuff on display, but not for sale, and there was a fair amount of militaria of all nationalities. I saw no hate/racist literature, no militia stuff, and a lot of second amendment literature with the usual assortment of how to &history books. While I would concede that there is the possibility of illegal dealing, I didn't see anything that looked remotely questionable. Based on my limited experience, I've got to agree, it's all media hype.

M2
 
Chuck B

I'll check that article out. My point was that the AG got all kinds of "mainstream" media coverage when making his wild-a** claims about what was for sale at that show, but the "mainstream" media sure didn't waste any ink reporting how false these things are.
Then you get someone like this gun-grabber on Ken Hamblin who learns everything she knows about guns, and gun shows from the LA Times making stupid statements that more of the sheople take as gospel, and on, and on, and on it goes. I sometimes despair that the stupidity of the masses who get their information only from network news is more profound than even I can comprehend. Aaarrgghh!!
 
Well, actually, I HAVE witnessed at least one sale at a gun show I figured was illegal. Didn't bother me though, as it wasn't a sale to a felon, or anything like that; Just a dealer mis-interpreting the critera under Michigan law as to what qualifies as a "pistol", (Carbines under a certain length are considered pisotls here.) in order to make a sale on the spot, instead of sending the guy off to get a pistol permit.

Maybe this is a bit anarchic for some of you, but I'm not going to get torqued over people violating laws I figure aren't constitutional anyway. I've got a sneaking hunch that if the government could actually enforce ALL the gun laws on the books, the way the NRA is stupidly demanding, half the gun owners in the country would end up behind bars for one technical violation or another.

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
The debunking of the arrests at the last LA show was buried bothe the LA Times and the OC Register. It basically said that only 1 person was to be charged and the others were, "still being investigated." The Register went a little further and said that there would be no charges agaist 4 while one person would be prosecuted.
 
Brett,

I'm with you on our points about contitutionality.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
referal #2005932
 
Brett,
With some 20,000 gun laws, I agree with you!
We need to be careful what we ask for.
We just might GET it! ;)
 
One only has to ask Randy Weaver about the consequences of running afoul of the myriad of firearms regulations in this country to realize how bad it can be.
 
The most dangerous aspect of a gun show is the food. Here, the ongoing battle between small dealers and big dealers has turned most shows into low class fleamarkets [without fleamarket prices]. Its so bad that gunshows will put themselves out of business.
 
Well, some bozo running for Mayor attended the Salt Lake City gun show this weekend and walked out brandishing a chrome-plated Davis(?) .380 that he claimed he bought from someone who was not a dealer -- "I bought this for cash, no questions asked". A criminal or gang member could do the same".

No (current) laws were broken, but it DOES put us in a bad light. I don't know how we can fight that kind of posturing. If the Feds
don't widen the Brady net, I suspect the show promoters will allow only FFLs just as a CYA against potential lawsuits.

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
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