Gun Shot IN The Air Kills 7 Year Old July 4th
- Thread starter redrick
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Very sad news indeed. I don't believe they will ever find the shooter. I have had friends in the past that bragged about doing the same thing in their neighborhoods on the 4th. I countered with "what if the bullets falling back down hit somebody?". Their response was that it would never happen and that if it did they couldn't be caught anyway. They just laughed it off.
Gun ownership can be a double edged sword. There are people out there that are legally able to own guns but are really not responsible enough and will do stupid things with them. Such is life.
Gun ownership can be a double edged sword. There are people out there that are legally able to own guns but are really not responsible enough and will do stupid things with them. Such is life.
Theohazard
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What I find interesting is that a bullet that goes straight up (or mostly straight up) and falls back to earth is not going fast enough to be deadly under most conditions. At this point the bullet is just falling from the force of gravity alone, and that's not enough to kill except under the most freakish of circumstances.
But when a weapon is fired at an angle, the bullet retains some of its initial velocity and it definitely has enough power to kill when it comes back down.
The problem is that it's difficult to determine what angle is deadly; at what deviation from straight up does the bullet still retain some of its initial velocity? Becuase of this, nobody should EVER fire a weapon in the air, otherwise terrible things happen like in the story the OP linked.
But when a weapon is fired at an angle, the bullet retains some of its initial velocity and it definitely has enough power to kill when it comes back down.
The problem is that it's difficult to determine what angle is deadly; at what deviation from straight up does the bullet still retain some of its initial velocity? Becuase of this, nobody should EVER fire a weapon in the air, otherwise terrible things happen like in the story the OP linked.
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Theohazard
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Whoa. You're right; my post does sound like I'm trying to help people do it more safely. That was not at all my intention! Nobody should EVER fire a gun into the air under any circumstances. I was just trying to convey some info on the physics of a bullet fired straight up. I think I'll edit the post now.
I believe Myth busters did an episode with this. If I recall correctly, they determined that if the bullet was fired at any sort of angle it had the potential to maintain its ballistic trajectory and kill someone. Only if the bullet went completely vertical in a straight line could it fall back to Earth with a non-lethal velocity. I wouldn't do it even if I lived in the middle of nowhere though. Seems to be way too much risk involved.
I found a summary of the episode here.
I found a summary of the episode here.
Glenn E. Meyer
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Mythbusters - wonder if hit a young infant in the head as compared to a test adult skull?
Such folks who shoot in the air are worthless. Edit for an oops in transition.
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In New Orleans shooting into the air is/was considered a July 4th "tradition." That is until several people were killed or wounded by bullets returning to earth in the French Quarter and elsewhere. NOLA police are rigorous in finding irresponsible shooters. My Saudi Arabian friend's teenage son was wounded in such a manner during a party in Saudi Arabia.
It is pointless to discuss initial and terminal velocities and bullet trajectories when such "celebratory" actions threaten humans and property. As mentioned, the primary concern is responsible handling of firearms but not as a means of celebration.
It is pointless to discuss initial and terminal velocities and bullet trajectories when such "celebratory" actions threaten humans and property. As mentioned, the primary concern is responsible handling of firearms but not as a means of celebration.
Theohazard
New member
GEM - edited out a comment based on a misplaced and unclear sentence in my post. Sorry about that.
I found that episode to be extremely informative. It explained what my Dad and I found in our many years of running a family roofing business in Washinton DC.
Every several months we'd find a leak caused by a bullet that had been fired into the air. The thin layer of roofing (usually tin) was punctured, along with up to a quarter inch of plywood, but that was usually the extent of the damage. Sometimes we'd find just a very small puncture and then a mostly intact bullet just sitting on the roof nearby. Most of the houses we worked on had flat roofs, but even then we didn't alway find the bullet lying nearby; it was probably washed to the gutter at some point.
I'm guessing the bullets we found that penetrated the plywood still had some angular momentum. But even then, most of the bullet we found probably didn't have enough energy to puncture an adult skull; most probably would just have broken the skin. And the ones where the bullet just made a small divot and bounced out probaby would have barely broken the skin. I specifically remember finding at least one .30 caliber rifle bullet like that.
A few times we did find a bullet that went far enough through the wood that it would very likely have killed someone. These seemed like they hit at somewhat of an angle, but it was hard to tell.
All this just goes to show that, while a bullet fired into the air doesn't always come down with deadly velocity, it happens often enough that it's stupid to ever fire a gun in the air.
I found that episode to be extremely informative. It explained what my Dad and I found in our many years of running a family roofing business in Washinton DC.
Every several months we'd find a leak caused by a bullet that had been fired into the air. The thin layer of roofing (usually tin) was punctured, along with up to a quarter inch of plywood, but that was usually the extent of the damage. Sometimes we'd find just a very small puncture and then a mostly intact bullet just sitting on the roof nearby. Most of the houses we worked on had flat roofs, but even then we didn't alway find the bullet lying nearby; it was probably washed to the gutter at some point.
I'm guessing the bullets we found that penetrated the plywood still had some angular momentum. But even then, most of the bullet we found probably didn't have enough energy to puncture an adult skull; most probably would just have broken the skin. And the ones where the bullet just made a small divot and bounced out probaby would have barely broken the skin. I specifically remember finding at least one .30 caliber rifle bullet like that.
A few times we did find a bullet that went far enough through the wood that it would very likely have killed someone. These seemed like they hit at somewhat of an angle, but it was hard to tell.
All this just goes to show that, while a bullet fired into the air doesn't always come down with deadly velocity, it happens often enough that it's stupid to ever fire a gun in the air.
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Didn't mean MB are worthless. I meant folks that shoot in the air.
I'll clarify.
I'll clarify.
Theohazard
New member
Ahhh, sorry about the misunderstanding. Yeah, I agree with you completely!
This happened in Ohio during the 2011 black powder deer season. A hunter discharged his weapon into the air, because he wanted to unload it. A teenage girl, a mile away was struck, and killed by his ignorance. Why didnt he shoot into a tree, or the ground? She is dead because he was negligent, just like the boy in Virginia. Very sad.
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I have NEVER understood why ANYONE would fire a weapon into the air. Would these people launch rockets that go straight up in the air and then explode only when they hit the ground, person, house etc?
Not that it's a good idea (or always legal) to shoot lead at extreme velocities into the ground, but if someone feels compelled to fire their weapon just to hear it go "BOOM", why not simply shoot the patch of ground 5 feet in front of you?
Not that it's a good idea (or always legal) to shoot lead at extreme velocities into the ground, but if someone feels compelled to fire their weapon just to hear it go "BOOM", why not simply shoot the patch of ground 5 feet in front of you?
One of the dumbest things I ever did as a kid was shoot an arrow straight up into the air.
We watched it go up, . . . and turn, . . . and begin falling, . . . then lost it.
It came down about 15 feet from us, . . . stuck fully 1/3 into the ground.
That cured me from ever shooting anything up into the air just for kicks and giggles.
May God bless,
Dwight
We watched it go up, . . . and turn, . . . and begin falling, . . . then lost it.
It came down about 15 feet from us, . . . stuck fully 1/3 into the ground.
That cured me from ever shooting anything up into the air just for kicks and giggles.
May God bless,
Dwight
Double Naught Spy
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http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...e-Air-Strikes-Chesterfield-Boy-214371901.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ired-air-walked-July-4-fireworks-display.html
One boy killed and a woman was shot in the leg as well in another incident.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ired-air-walked-July-4-fireworks-display.html
One boy killed and a woman was shot in the leg as well in another incident.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
There was a somewhat similar case in Pennsylvania a year or two ago. An Amish girl riding in her family's buggy was killed by a bullet from the sky. It was eventually determined that the shot was fired by a man about a mile away who had been hunting with a black powder rifle (IIRC). When he returned home, his preferred mode of unloading said rifle was to point it at the sky and pull the trigger. 
Wreck-n-Crew
New member
I am not into the blame game but one answer comes to mind.......Television.
How many times have you seen someone fire a warning shot into the air or even get drunk and let off a few on tv or in the movies. crazy.
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