Gun shop employee
- Thread starter DonutGuy
- Start date
Jbar4Ranch
New member
I had a customer just yesterday walk up to one of my younger employees at the counter and said simply, "Forty five one ten". The "kid" didn't skip a beat and asked if he was looking for ammo, brass, or a rifle. (.45-110 Sharps) Afterward, I asked the "kid" if he knew what the C in C. Sharps stood for. "Uhhh... Christian, isn't it?" I 'bout fell over! 
In terms of purchasing something as important and expensive as a firearm, as far as I'm concerned, the responsibility for making a prudent purchase falls squarely on the shoulders of the buyer. If you're naive enough to stroll into your local car dealer and ask the salesman which is best for you, a convertible or a station wagon or an automatic or a standard transmission and you end up with something that's less than suitable for your own needs, you have only yourself to blame. Likewise, if you have to ask a salesclerk which is best for you, a revolver or a semi-auto pistol, and you end up with an inappropriate choice for your particular circumstance(s), look into the mirror if you think someone needs blamed.
Speaking for myself, whether I'm buying a gun, an automobile or a toaster for that matter, I feel it's incumbent on me to do the necessary independent research on a product before making a purchase decision. Some of that research may well involve quizzing a sales clerk, reading enthusiast's publications, talking with informed friends or acknowledged experts at my local gun club or even consulting some of the people on The Firing Line who over the years I've become comfortable with in terms of their knowledge base and general expertise (and, most likely, my ultimate decision will be predicated on a combination of these sources of information).
And, still speaking for myself here, I really have to question the motives of people who lurk in the dark corners of gun shops in the hopes of overhearing erroneous advice from stupid clerks to unwitting prospective customers, just so that they can enlighten the dumb with their smart counsel. Boorish behavior in the extreme.
Speaking for myself, whether I'm buying a gun, an automobile or a toaster for that matter, I feel it's incumbent on me to do the necessary independent research on a product before making a purchase decision. Some of that research may well involve quizzing a sales clerk, reading enthusiast's publications, talking with informed friends or acknowledged experts at my local gun club or even consulting some of the people on The Firing Line who over the years I've become comfortable with in terms of their knowledge base and general expertise (and, most likely, my ultimate decision will be predicated on a combination of these sources of information).
And, still speaking for myself here, I really have to question the motives of people who lurk in the dark corners of gun shops in the hopes of overhearing erroneous advice from stupid clerks to unwitting prospective customers, just so that they can enlighten the dumb with their smart counsel. Boorish behavior in the extreme.
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bad business=no business...
In my suburban area, I went to a gun shop/military surplus store in 2004 to buy a new Bianchi shoulder holster for my snub Taurus revolver. I spoke directly to the owner/general manager. He was crass, rude and a total snob.
The same gun shop/surplus store went out of business completely around 2006.
I agree with the members that you shouldn't go into these retail stores to "start fights" but if a patron asks your opinion you can give it.
As for the "shop somewhere else" mindset, that does not always work when the stores or FFL holders are all -.
Clyde Frog
ps The now closed gun shop also had staff members who posted ads on Gunsamerica.com. When I asked a sales clerk and mgr about a ad for a 4" barrel Ruger GP100 .357magnum, they started to deny it then when I gave them the detailed listing/site post, they were more honest and said they posted it on Gunsamerica.com. I turned around and walked out. I wouldn't buy a pack of chewing gum let alone a $400 handgun from a bunch of 2 faced scumbags.
In my suburban area, I went to a gun shop/military surplus store in 2004 to buy a new Bianchi shoulder holster for my snub Taurus revolver. I spoke directly to the owner/general manager. He was crass, rude and a total snob.
The same gun shop/surplus store went out of business completely around 2006.
I agree with the members that you shouldn't go into these retail stores to "start fights" but if a patron asks your opinion you can give it.
As for the "shop somewhere else" mindset, that does not always work when the stores or FFL holders are all -.
Clyde Frog
ps The now closed gun shop also had staff members who posted ads on Gunsamerica.com. When I asked a sales clerk and mgr about a ad for a 4" barrel Ruger GP100 .357magnum, they started to deny it then when I gave them the detailed listing/site post, they were more honest and said they posted it on Gunsamerica.com. I turned around and walked out. I wouldn't buy a pack of chewing gum let alone a $400 handgun from a bunch of 2 faced scumbags.
Cheapshooter
New member
Thought about that when I retired last year. I have been encouraged by several gun counter employees at the local Bass Pro to join them. Thought I would but for 2 reasons:
1. I'm not bored with retirement yet.
2. I would owe Bass Pro money on pay day.
Revolver guys like to push revolvers on people....semi-auto guys tend to do the same.
The reality is that a good modern semi-auto is every bit as reliable as a revolver. Revolvers, when they have problems, tend to have indexing problems which results in misfires. Most of the time you won't even know what happened - light primer strike? Bad ammo? Then there's the fear of pulling that trigger again bacause of a hang-fire which could blow up your gun.
I also find it hard to believe that any human with an IQ over 90 finds a semi-auto too complicated to use. If you can ride a single-speed bicycle you can operate a semi-auto pistol.
The reality is that a good modern semi-auto is every bit as reliable as a revolver. Revolvers, when they have problems, tend to have indexing problems which results in misfires. Most of the time you won't even know what happened - light primer strike? Bad ammo? Then there's the fear of pulling that trigger again bacause of a hang-fire which could blow up your gun.
I also find it hard to believe that any human with an IQ over 90 finds a semi-auto too complicated to use. If you can ride a single-speed bicycle you can operate a semi-auto pistol.
That's assuming a lot
Right now, a sizable portion of the buying public are people buying mouse guns for their first (and probably only) gun. Most have little interest in shooting and even less interest in training. These are people who expect to buy gun, holster and ammo in one sitting, and be done with the whole thing.
Worse yet is the guy buying a gun for the wife/girlfriend/daughter. Some guy looked at her funny at Wal-Mart, and she got scared. Therefore, she needs a gun. No, she won't be present for the selection process because she's "scared of the things." She won't be getting any training beyond the what Captain "I once knew a guy who knew a cop" tells her, which usually involves some variation on "if you think you see someone in the house, just point at 'em and empty the clip [sic]."
For that consumer, a revolver may be a better choice. When you go that small (we're talking P3AT/LCP size guns), revolvers will hold up a bit better to the abject lack of maintenance. Under stress, short-stroking the slide while cycling could be a real issue, and then there's the possibility of "but I pulled out the magazine" negligent discharges. A long double-action trigger will be less prone to an ND for people who don't know anything about Rule #3.
A part of me screams on the inside to know that there are so many people like that, but that's the unfortunate reality. None of that excuses the dunderheaded behavior of the clerk witnessed by the OP, but in some cases, it might be best to steer someone towards revolvers.
pythagorean
Moderator
I frequent 4 gun stores in my area regularly. I'd say they have staff to fill the bill unlike the OP's experience here.
Wherever I have lived I've been to all the gun stores. I don't mind hearing opinions of the sales people. I remember ONE store in Reno back in the 70s that sold my friend his Colt .357 (Mark III) Trooper 6". He didn't have a 19 or 66 or 28 or 27 in his entire shop! I asked him if he had a 6" 19 and he proceeded to tell me reasons NOT to get one.
I was in college in those days and more impressionable. But not THAT impressionable.
85% or more of the RPD CARRIED SWs over anything else in those days, mostly in .357.
Other experiences I've had I've forgotten.
But this post reminds me of that place in Reno back then.
Wherever I have lived I've been to all the gun stores. I don't mind hearing opinions of the sales people. I remember ONE store in Reno back in the 70s that sold my friend his Colt .357 (Mark III) Trooper 6". He didn't have a 19 or 66 or 28 or 27 in his entire shop! I asked him if he had a 6" 19 and he proceeded to tell me reasons NOT to get one.
I was in college in those days and more impressionable. But not THAT impressionable.
85% or more of the RPD CARRIED SWs over anything else in those days, mostly in .357.
Other experiences I've had I've forgotten.
But this post reminds me of that place in Reno back then.
Tom, you make a good point about the modern line-up of mouse guns. I'd agree - those aren't for novices, especially if they are using hot defensive loads. I was thinking more along the line of a standard sized 9mm pistol like a CZ-75, Beretta 92, Glock 17, etc. Take for example the Glock 17 - you only have four mechanical opperations to learn to shoot it: Magazine release; loading ammo into the magazine; pull the slide back; and press the trigger.
Other DA/SA guns might have 5 or 6 mechanical functions, with the addition of a decocker and safety. A typical revolver has 4-5 mechanical movements: Cylinder release, loading of the cylinder, snapping the cylinder back into place making sure that it is indexed correctly, pull the trigger and maybe cocking the hammer.
A single-speed bicycle has 2 complex mechanical movements: peddling forward and steering (requires balance), and two simple mechanical movements: rear break, front break.
My point is that shooting a full sized semi-automatic gun is genuinely simple. True, with a mouse-gun, recoil, limp-wristing, grip position, riding the grip too high, etc. adds an entirely different dimension that I forgot about.
I work part time at a gun/sporting goods store. The problem is this, the corporate office could care less who knows what as long as they are selling the crap they stock and getting the bonus stuff sold. I work with some knowledgeable guys and some idiots. IMHO this is the reason you should shop in a local mom and pop store that knows what they are talking about. You pay more but get more for the money.
"pay more, get more"...
I disagree with the last gun shop post.
If you have a med or large amount of firearms/tactics/gear/ammunition knowledge as a hunter/military service member-veteran/sworn LE or corrections/private-armed security officer or guard then a "mom & pop" retail shop with high mark-up is not going to help you.
If the store has higher prices but great gunsmiths/mgmt/staff that may be a benefit. When you want special orders, repairs, requests, etc
Sadly in 2010, these types of gun stores & surplus supply shops are falling off the US map.
I disagree with the last gun shop post.
If you have a med or large amount of firearms/tactics/gear/ammunition knowledge as a hunter/military service member-veteran/sworn LE or corrections/private-armed security officer or guard then a "mom & pop" retail shop with high mark-up is not going to help you.
If the store has higher prices but great gunsmiths/mgmt/staff that may be a benefit. When you want special orders, repairs, requests, etc
Sadly in 2010, these types of gun stores & surplus supply shops are falling off the US map.
Dave Chuppa
New member
When Costumers come into our Shop I will suggest a Revolver for people that don't have the strength to rack a slide. If it is going to be used as a self defense gun I suggest the Revolver if they are not going to practice and learn what to do in case of a malfunction. I just make suggestions. They end up making their own decision.
I'm not sure how you can't have enough strength to rack a slide, but still have enough strength to pull the double action trigger of a revolver while steadying your hand and handling the revolver's recoil.
I've heard all sorts of reasons why "non" gun people should stick to revolvers over semi-autos. I've heard this before too. I've heard several females who were "non-gun" people indicate that they prefer revolvers because "stuff" doesn't fly out at you - I can almost bite on that one. I guess that ejected shells could be a distraction.
Here's the problem that I have with revolvers and revolver advocates for inexperienced self-defense use. Unless you are using the revolver for a range toy, it's not meant to be used as a single action. I suppose that some folks (mistakenly) think that revolvers are easier to use because they can cock the hammer first then pull a 2.5 lb trigger. That's a bad way to learn to use a revolver for SD, in my opinion. You need to be able to draw quickly, squeeze all 6-7 lbs of that trigger and fire without cocking that hammer first - and repeat same double action for follow up shots......that's not an easy thing to learn to do quickly and accurately.
S's last post; DA only revolvers; DA only pistols, strength...
S's post brings up a few good points that many gun shop employees & some firearm forum members do not really consider.
New gun owners or people who lack the hand strength to work a semi auto pistol SHOULD get a simple DA only .38spl revolver.
Pistols are not a good choice for those who can not safely hold/fire the pistol.
Single action use(in revolvers/pistols that are DA) should be avoided in a carry/duty/protection sidearm unless due to serious illness, injury or maybe range are factors.
If you are using a single action pistol or SAO, like a 1911A1 .45acp or a HP or a SIG model SAO.
As some tactics/gun writers have stated, holding a violent subject at gunpoint with a cocked hammer could lead to a accident or ND.
Many large US police agencies convert or "neuter" sidearms to DA only for these reasons.
In closing, there are many great DA only pistols & revolvers that new gun owners(male or female) can use safely. If new shooters can learn to carry & fire these firearms properly then they can move on to other models.
S's post brings up a few good points that many gun shop employees & some firearm forum members do not really consider.
New gun owners or people who lack the hand strength to work a semi auto pistol SHOULD get a simple DA only .38spl revolver.
Pistols are not a good choice for those who can not safely hold/fire the pistol.
Single action use(in revolvers/pistols that are DA) should be avoided in a carry/duty/protection sidearm unless due to serious illness, injury or maybe range are factors.
If you are using a single action pistol or SAO, like a 1911A1 .45acp or a HP or a SIG model SAO.
As some tactics/gun writers have stated, holding a violent subject at gunpoint with a cocked hammer could lead to a accident or ND.
Many large US police agencies convert or "neuter" sidearms to DA only for these reasons.
In closing, there are many great DA only pistols & revolvers that new gun owners(male or female) can use safely. If new shooters can learn to carry & fire these firearms properly then they can move on to other models.
Let's see, a six to seven pound trigger pull double action versus a 16 to 18 pound recoil spring? Hmmm.
Where's Jim March when you need him?
I guess that's why they quit making single actions entirely and also make double action only in revolvers meant for defense, like J-frames. 
Single action may be a bit slower, but someone facing a break-in at home may very well have time to cock a revolver. They may not have the strength or forethought to rack a slide on a semi-auto when necessary.I think Mr. Chuppa is correct. Suggest a revolver for novices for home defense but give accurate information and sell them what they want. Suppose you are a car salesman. Someone comes in and says they want to buy an auto to pull a boat and ask about getting that sports car sitting in the showroom. Shouldn't the salesman at least suggest another vehicle?
You can use your entire hand to pull back that slide. Only 1 finger to thrust 6 lbs on the trigger. If strength is truly an issue, the individual wouldn't be able to do either very effectively. And what about recoil. I guess at some point in our lives we will all be too frail to use a handgun.
The main point that I'm making is that, with the exception of a rare handicap or someone who is extremely frail, most normal adults can easily pull the slide all the way back on any 9mm or 45 acp semi-auto. I've seen some squeemish women in my time not WANT to pull that slide back properly, but if they wanted to they surely could. These same "squeemish" women had no problem lifting weights, running, or operating scuba equipment - they were simply scared of manipulating yanking on something that goes "BOOM". That's blind fear, not lack of strength.
It doesn't take any strength training, practice or experience to grip the slide and yank it back. I'm just calling it the way I see it - don't mean to offend any of the ladies out there that have no problem shooting bullseys at 50 yards with their tricked out 1911's.
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