Gun owners tend to do comparatively well under fascism

[Twycross]

...from your link:

Quote:
There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.

Except that that little snippet is taken out of context, and irrelivant to your point.

Since I committed the sin of STARTING a discussion dealing with fascism and nazis, your incredible wit declares that it "was over before it started."

It would seem that for all practical purposes, this thread is over, unless a radical turn is made.

You've spun yourself into a corner where you're arguing that fascism shouldn't be discussed at all, because once it is, the discussion is over (in your mind)

Oddly enough, I never got that out of Antipitas's posts. Drop the straw man.

 

[stratus]

I went through this thread and counted the "responses" that have little to zip to do with the topic. Do you know what it came up to? A quick run through turned up ELEVEN posts that frankly come off looking like avoidance posts. Like the writer doesn't want to touch the subject for fear of taking a stand and instead just wants to stall (I didn't count Cobray's 2nd post because he was responding, and his first post was on topic as well as right on).

There are plenty of people on this forum who are more than capable of debating your original point. I know this, and in all likelihood, so do you. I think it's more a question of whether your topic is pertinent enough to merit a wholehearted challenge.

Perhaps if you clearly and systematically stated your points and backed them up with personal experience, rather than resorting to a summary consisting largely of cynical rhetoric, your opinion might be more well-received? There needs to be some means to bridge the gap between how you think and how others think. In that event, people might still disagree with you, but they will at least take you seriously, most of the time.

I'm not asking you to write a research paper, but even a persuasive essay requires some substantive basis in fact, in order to to persuade.

 

[Glock 31]

How can you say a "non-threatening country"?! Sure Iraq or maybe even Saddam wasn't directly responsible for 9/11, but he was far from non-threatening. Just cause he wasn't threatening U.S. citizens between wars doesn't mean he didn't need to be taken out. And just how often these days do countries invade each other? What, once every ten years or so. The only main countries I ever hear about invading anyone are North Korea and Iraq. And if you don't think Saddam was such a bad guy, watch the A&E biography on his two sons. Those are..oh heh heh my mistake..were some of the most evil, miserable, sob's this world has ever produced. They reputedly kidnapped a young girl from the college, raped her for three months, finally broke her spirit, then coated her in honey and fed her to ravenous dobermans they had been starving for a week. That's just one of their incidents they did for "fun".

Yes Bush has made mistakes, no administration is perfect. But I don't hardly see people with bush all over their chests marching around slaughtering jews or any other ethnic race. Nazi is a very powerfull term and should only be used for those who claim the title for themselves, or the truly wicked of criminals.

And personally, I think it's better Bush than Clinton or Kerry. He at least was the lesser dangerous of the politicians.

 

[stratus]

Nazi is a very powerfull term and should only be used for those who claim the title for themselves, or the truly wicked of criminals.

Very true. Very... VERY... true.

 

[sewerman]

can of worms

don't like whats happening to my country......
the times they are a changing.............
imho won't beable to make a difference politically
until we have a three party system.
democrat? republican? both have the same agenda
they just sell it to different levels of our society.
money talks and the working class will be trodden under.
our society is rapidly becoming an hour glass economy
of the haves and the have nots.
ask yourself where you fit in ?

 

[Weeg]

Shhhhh...They're listening...

 

[gc70]

Since most bush supporters just ignore things and call everyone "liberals," "unpatriotic," or "soft on Osama" who oppose "the leader," I really don't expect much from them.

Well MPA.com, there you are in your own words. You post a "poll" and then say you don't really care what anyone else says if they disagree with your point of view. Why bother, except as a platform for your own rant?

 

[Al Norris]

Well MPA.com, there you are in your own words. You post a "poll" and then say you don't really care what anyone else says if they disagree with your point of view. Why bother, except as a platform for your own rant?

And therein lies my whole point in deriding the topic, as posed by you, MPA.com.

On a serious note, you are correct, inasmuch as this country appears to be sliding into a form of fascism. But not for any of the reasons (or conspiracies) you mention.

Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Can you name the time, place and manner when corporations went from being legal charters of associations of limited time spans and limited privileges to becoming legal persons with inalienable Rights, existing far longer than natural persons?

When you understand this process, you will begin to have an understanding of the type of fascism this country is headed. For a short essay on what Fascism is, or can be, read What is Fascism by Matthew N. Lyons. It contains some radical thoughts on the subject. Pay particular attention to the closing paragraph.

Next read a slightly longer essay by Thomas J. DiLorenzo, Economic Fascism.

If the realities of a corporate run State do not at first make sense, then you haven't understood the context or why I asked you to answer the first question.

Now what was that about boxing myself in?

 

[Win62a]

Need another choice in this "poll". "Regardless, I still think the Democrats and their Socialistic pals suck."

 

[TheBluesMan]

You are so incredibly PARTISAN that you're putting on display what the main problem is in this country: the fake two party system and people who defend it when they defend "their team."

You'll get no argument from me regarding the apparent two-party system. I'll argue against your assertion that the United States government is a fascist one, but rather submit that it is a mostly benevolent oligarchy.

If you can drop the team mentality and re read my post, you'll notice that I'm discussing various 1. principles of fascism, 2. the U.S. government, and 3. the current occupant of the white house who has accelerated the adoption of those principles (at the direction of his handlers).

Fascist governments are headed by a dictator.
Fascist governments allow no opposition.
Fascist governments promote racism.
Fascist governments decry democracy as weak.
Fascist governments claim capitalism is corrupt.

What is your purpose in trying to convince people that the U.S. government is Fascist? Let's say you win the debate - what next? What is your ideal alternative?

 

[MasterPieceArms.com]

Fascist governments are headed by a dictator.

That's like saying all big trucks have big tires. They usually do, but don't HAVE to. It's ironic when considering bush's statement of how dictatorships are easier "as long as I'm the dictator."

Fascist governments allow no opposition.

Neither do communist governments. Neither do tin horn dictators in Africa. The patently illegal huge "exclusion zones" used by this administration, together with how they designate "protest zones" sometimes in caged areas FAR away, effectively shuts down a lot of opposition. How bout how the "patriot" act was rammed through without allowing a final version to be available to be read before the vote? Congress was openly complicit in THIS fascist power grab because they should have voted no. Not only was opposition prevented by a final copy not being available to read, but DEBATE never even took place!

Fascist governments promote racism.

That's like saying all washing machines are white. They usually are, but it can still be a washing machine if it's painted purple. It can still be fascism if it doesn't promote racism.

Fascist governments decry democracy as weak.

Democracy IS weak, because it's mob rule. WE ARE A REPUBLIC (at least we used to be). The 17th amendment in 1913 infused large amounts of raw democracy into our system, which has proven why the founding fathers hated democracy.

Fascist governments claim capitalism is corrupt.

WOW that's a distortion. Basic fascism is defined as state control of industry as opposed to state ownership. Fascism doesn't END capitalism, it takes it over and controls it. Hitler didn't take ownership of the Alfried Krupp factories, he exerted power, influence, and control (in 1943 Hitler made a special order reverting the Krupp company to a family holding). Hitler basically said "you WILL play ball my way and manufacture what I want." It's chillingly similar to the way the U.S. government micromanages companies through reams of product regulations and ESPECIALLY via the tyrannical internal revenue code.

What is your purpose in trying to convince people that the U.S. government is Fascist?

I don't know where you get this assumption that I'm trying to "convince" you of something. Our society constantly wants to be "wowed" and "convinced" of things. If you look back at my original post, I'm simply taking some observations and putting them together.

Let's say you win the debate - what next? What is your ideal alternative?

I don't know what "win the debate" is supposed to mean, something is either true or it isn't. My alternative to fascism? Gee, that's a toughie. How bout tearing down the federal tyranny and putting it back in it's constitutional box? Prospects for that aren't too good, because Americans are very very loyal to their control system (don't believe me? Challenge that system and watch the names people will call you).

One thing that has been lost in all of this, is that fascism is NATIONAL SOCIALISM. Anyone who is partially informed knows that the U.S. has ALL the basics of textbook socialism. There are two possible add ons to socialism that are giant leaps: communism (which is essentially socialism in a big hurry where the state owns effectively all industry), and extreme and unique type of nationalism. You know you have extreme nationalism when your nation is attacking non threat nations, not to leech from them like communism does, but to install leaders loyal to your overall system.

Bush's use of 9/11 in so similar a way to how Hitler used the Reichstag fire bears repeating.

 

[spacemanspiff]

How bout tearing down the federal tyranny and putting it back in it's constitutional box?

sorry, but we've already been over this with a bazillion other keyboard revolutionarys. the best one we've encountered so far is some guy who claims to be 'off the grid' by not having bank accounts, no utilities in his name, but he posts on internet forums about how he'll be in the lead of the soon-to-come revolution.

oh yeah, and just because whiny liberal bands like system of a down have lyrics that state 'we all live in a facist nation' doesnt make it true.

 

[Wildalaska]

Your just so cynical Spiffy

WildbetyourhungovertooAlaska

 

[GallantAlpha]

Dittos to Sewerman about times are changing!

That's why I deeply believe in one thing! The president that supports my right to keep and bare arms the most! Is the one I'm voting for!

GA

 

[CobrayCommando]

sorry, but we've already been over this with a bazillion other keyboard revolutionarys. the best one we've encountered so far is some guy who claims to be 'off the grid' by not having bank accounts, no utilities in his name, but he posts on internet forums about how he'll be in the lead of the soon-to-come revolution.

And your point is... what again Ramblo?

 

[spacemanspiff]

hey now! i'm a ninja, and my ninjatude is waaaay more cooler than running around wearing camo underoos sporting a pair of engraved mac-10s.

 

[CobrayCommando]

If I had the Macs I would do that. Anndd err.... of course if I had camo underoos... Yes...




If.

 

[FirstFreedom]

I think Mr. MPA is definitely on to something here. It's happening more slowly than say, with Hitler. But I do NOT agree with the conspiracy theory that says portions of the gov't either orchestrated or were complicit in causing 9/11 to happen, at least not at high levels. That's hogwash, IMO.

 

[Jart]

oh yeah, and just because whiny liberal bands like system of a down have lyrics that state 'we all live in a facist nation' doesnt make it true.

I am getting sooo behind the times. Last band I followed said we all lived in a Yellow Submarine.

Sorry.

 

[CobrayCommando]

Yes, I prefer to think 9/11 and Pearl Harbor happened by accident. Maybe they didn't, but I still prefer to think they happened by accident. I know at least FDR was just waiting for such a thing though. I wonder about Bush.

I'm going to give you my opinion here: those who believe we aren't slipping into totalitarianism are deluded or ignorant. Sorry if that offends people.