Gun Owners are worthless..TRT web page to shut down

"A highway shooting. Though, not nearly as common as anything mentioned above, the consequences are equally as devastating. Popular methods include (a) a sniper hidden in the bush randomly shooting at cars on the freeway (b) people standing on an overpass or bridge, throwing large objects, general rocks, onto the cars below (c) people occasionally hanging objects (generally bricks) from an overpass or bridge at windscreen level - a car travelling under the bridge would then... I'll leave you to figure the rest out for yourself. Or better still, wait for the police to describe it to your grieving family."

This sounds like southern california!Perhaps we are becoming "Africanized" like the bee's ;)
 
I know you spent a lot of your own cash and time on the site, I think you did a hell of a good job FWIW. Wish it would have worked out differently. BTW if Labgrade or someone else is picking up the tourch I'm good to kick in a few bucks to help out w/expenses still.

scud

[This message has been edited by scud (edited September 18, 2000).]
 
Robby's not bailing out, folks, he's just redirecting his efforts to his radio show and his personal web page.

The TRT will go on. I feel quite confident that Robby will still give the demonstrations the occasional plug from his microphone, and there are still many individuals who are committed to making things happen before it's too late for all of us.

Answer the bell. Get off your stool. Get in the fight.
 
Glad to see the reality isn't as apocalyptic as the topic title.

Robby, you're more experienced than I, and you've devoted more time to the RKBA than most people. But, let me offer that sometimes it is best to take a long hike and enjoy life. And, please consider taking a look at the 5 Minute Handbook in the TFL Library ( http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/RKBA_handbook.html ). Sometimes I find that that document gives me heart when I'm feeling a bit down.

Take care, and thanks for all you've done. Regards from AZ
 
In all actuallity - I agree with Robby Noel...
Most gun owners sit on there hands.
But thats true of any group.

I also agree with Duck Hunt - No group of people should be excluded or even slighted.
Take a look at www.hardcoretalk.com and see what that place looks like. Makes me sick.
Those guys are bigoted, hate-mongers who do the RKBA no good. Just what the Anti-Gunners want to think think of us. Talk about fueling the Anti's fires!

You want a group that includes everyone... that makes a difference. You want a group that can make a real effort.
I know of 3 groups that are actually making a difference and causing effects that get felt.
#1 is the NRA. They do more TRAINING that anyone... The Eddie Eagle program is FLAWLESS. They got the bandwidth and the airtime to get the word out. Even if you dont agree with all of it - it's still the best game in town.
#2 is the JPFO. If you can argue with the NRA, you can't argue with these guys... They do all kinds of good things.
#3 is MOTHERS ARMS. They are getting out on the radio airwaves all the time and are a total mirrored opposit of the MMM. They take a VERY well written approach that doesnt get a knee jerk NO response from antigunners and gives them time to put a few thought cycles through like even the NRA can't do.

Do this... Get yourself an NRA or JPFO membership... and get you wife, or life partner, a MA membership. These guys are putting your dollars to good use in fighting for the RKBA.
 
Let me say thanks to all those who kicked my butt.....I really do need a break.....however what I did not mention was what was the real cause for my outburst....allow me to share this with you all

Thoughts on the Million Mom March Convention in Denver Exclusive to The Partisan
The first Million Mom March National Convention took place at the Hyatt
Regency Hotel, in Denver Colorado on Friday September 15th and Saturday,
September 16th.. What we saw and what we learned , opened our eyes wide,
to the enormous threat that we are facing from those who would trash the
Bill Of Rights and take away our guns, in the name of "protecting the
children.

There were aspects of this gathering, that reinforced already-held
beliefs and suspicions about the Million Mom March and its agenda, and
we discovered new things that came as a complete surprise. Following
the cardinal rule of warfare, which is "know thy enemy, we had members
of the Tyranny Response Team pose as Million Mom wannabees, and had them
register for both days of the meeting.

We wanted to have a lot of people infiltrate their meeting, because as
we checked their schedule prior to the meeting itself, we learned that
they would break the main body of attendees (about 350) into separate
workshops and seminars. We wanted to be able to tape and take notes of
all of the various seminars, but because they ran five seminars
concurrently, we had to decide which ones were the most important. They
were charging $100. per head to attend the convention, and in addition
to the fact, that the notion of giving these Fascists even a dime was
repugnant, our finances are severely limited. Thusly, we had to settle
for only two.

The idea was, that if one of our women got into trouble, there would be
someone else there to run interference for her, or at the very least,
give us a call and tell us what was happening. This may sound a bit
melodramatic, for if one or both of our ladies got caught, the very
worst that could have happened, is that they would have been asked to
leave. These women were showing a lot of courage, and a little back-up
never hurts.

The seminar attendees were given periodic breaks for meals and free
time, and as we had rooms in the hotel, we were able to meet with our
women periodically and debrief them, on what was going on. There were
moments, when each of them didn,t want to continue. Their emotions ran
from fear to shock, to disgust, to outrage. They both were afraid, that
they would not be able to control themselves, and might begin screaming
and ranting at these women, they so affectionately named, the "Commie
Mommies.

They turned out to be real troopers, however, and each of them stayed
the course and played their role perfectly through the very end. They
even joked about how many new "friends they made, and who they expected
to get e-mail and phone calls from. Quite frankly, these fine,
courageous women of the TRT, who volunteered to do this thing, ended up
with some very strong conflicting emotions.

Despite the fact that the MMM convention reaffirmed how great a threat
these statists pose to our liberty, on a personal note, they took a
strong liking to many of the women, and felt a strange sense of
betrayal, ingratiating themselves to them, under such false pretenses.
In addition, they felt that even though these women are being utterly
deceived and manipulated by tyrants and power brokers, the women
themselves, are for the most part, well-intentioned ladies and the TRT
women had ambivalent feelings about gathering information about them,
that ultimately will be used to defeat them.

Having said, all that, the process of debriefing these gals, turned into
more of an emotional roller coaster, than any of us could have foreseen.
The main point that they both stressed from their two day experience,
was that the MMM is much better funded, organized, motivated and
connected, than any of us had imagined. The sheer volume of literature
that we collected would tend to confirm this. The brochures were slick
and very professionally done. Some of them were in color and printed on
heavy glossy paper.

They covered a wide variety of subjects including all aspects of the gun
control debate and every facet of fund raising, organizing, dealing with
the press, legal concerns, security matters, and more. One of the things
that our ladies found particularly worrisome is the emphasis that the
MMM are placing on our youth. Clearly a disproportionate amount of their
efforts are aimed at our young people.

Donna Dees Thomases, much to our surprise, was not the center of
attention. Despite her impressive credentials as a press representative
for CBS News and two Democratic Louisiana Senators, Thomases was a
nervous, pudgy middle-aged woman, who looked strangely out of place in
her ill-fitting blue jeans.

It appeared that Rebecca Brown, the very same Rebecca Brown who founded
MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers), supplied both the spiritual energy
and certainly the lobbying experience and expertise at their
convention. She appeared quite tired, however and was noticed taking
Advil at the banquet. In a back handed compliment to the TRT, she said
that the MMM would make it a priority to "shame the TRT, in the same way
that MADD shamed drunk divers. Good luck, Becky.

We learned that the MMM is rolling in dough. They received a million
dollars from the Packard foundation and a staggering five million from
the Emma Goldman foundation, and a million dollars from.., not to
mention all of the ten and twenty dollar checks and cash that must be
flooding their post office boxes. They had to have raised about $35,000.
from the convention alone.

They had three professional video camera crews filming every facet of
their convention, as well as a still photographer who they contracted
independently. Their security man is a retired Secret Service agent
(much more on him to come soon), who in his brash arrogance, stressed
the point in his seminar on security to "know your enemy. I suppose
we,re just following his advice. The rest of his talk was classic threat
assessment kind of stuff.

Despite the fact that they maintain a non-partisan political makeup, in
the end, the MMM clearly and enthusiastically endorsed the candidacy of
Al Gore"what a surprise. What truly was a surprise, is that many of the
Million Moms casually admitted that their husbands owned guns, and in a
few instances, so did they. The leadership bent over backwards to
emphasize and re-emphasize the fact that the MMM does not want to
confiscate all guns. They did however, admit that certain actions taken
in California, did result in the banning and confiscation of a number of
guns labeled as "assault rifles.

They claim to simply want to outlaw what they call "junk guns and
"assault rifles. They want gun owners to be federally licensed,
photographed, finger printed and regulated. They want federal
legislation, because of how easy it is for people to cross state lines
and buy guns in states with more liberal laws than their own. This point
in particular, was driven home by women from Westchester, New York, who
also noted how different the gun culture was in Colorado than in their
home state.

Despite their reasons for federal legislation, they are somewhat
inexplicably focusing on state lobbying efforts. Clearly the majority of
the seminars, as well as the literature given to all attendees was
geared for organizing and lobbying on a state level. In private
conversations, there were some women who confessed to wanting an end to
all private gun ownership, but astonishingly enough, most of the women
favored strict control, licensing and regulation, as opposed to outright
prohibition and confiscation.

It is interesting to note, that in their talking points, they made it
clear that the Second Amendment, was to be skirted, or better yet,
ignored altogether in debate. They advised the Million Moms to veer away
from Constitutional arguments, and drive home the point that gun
violence is a social issue, and like cancer is a social disease, which
we as a society must deal with collectively.

It is therefore not too surprising that a disproportionate number of
attendees were in the health care profession, from nurses, trauma
counselors, psychologists and so on. They emphasized that the term "well
regulated in the Second Amendment didn,t mean well stocked (as we know
it did, from a myriad of sources) but rather, it meant well controlled
by the government, which is what they claim gives them license to enact
their entire agenda, and encourage their flock to fall back on, when
challenged by pro gun rights people.

What seemed to have an ironic sense of justice to it, is the fact that
many of the Million Moms were victims of their own propaganda. They were
busy making jokes about the TRT, how we must have eaten lead paint as
children, and our parents are related by blood, and we are the products
of inbreeding and a shallow gene pool and all of the other mindless,
evasive humor they love to belittle their opponents with. They truly
believe that we are red neck Neanderthal types, truly incapable of
reason, articulation and cognitive reasoning.

The majority of them are physically afraid of us, and a story was told
about how some Million Moms in Kentucky were intimidated by some people
they described as NRA militia types, menacingly patting their hips. It
was quite evident throughout the weekend, as we walked through the hotel
with our TRT T shirts on, that all the Million Moms who saw us, were
physically intimidated. In once case, a Commie Mommie, who was waiting
for an elevator refused to go inside, when one of our guys got in,
wearing his T-shirt. He held the door for her, but she shook her head
and said condescendingly, that she would just a soon wait for the next
one.

Towards the end of the seminar, they gave time tables for how long they
estimated it would take them to achieve their three main objectives, of
national registration, federal licensing and the outlawing of "junk
guns and "assault rifles. They said that they felt six to eight years
was realistic, with an outside chance of four years, if a few things
went their way.

One of the things that was repeated over and over, was how the media ate
up everything that they did, and how cooperative and sympathetic the
media was in all of their events and press conferences. Motherhood and
protecting children is a great glove to put over the fist of tyranny
that is about to smash the last vestige of the Second Amendment.
What the women both mysteriously said, was that by the end of the two
days, they both felt "brainwashed. I was perplexed and a little
frightened by what they meant by that, and asked each one, if they had
doubts, or second thoughts about the stand of the TRT. They both
emphatically said "No, but that they felt like they had come out of a
Tony Robbins seminar, or an Amway seminar, or an other cult like
atmosphere. They said that the Million Moms left the seminar completely
psyched and ready to do battle. Perhaps this is all in preparation for
yet another sequel to The Stepherd Wives.

All of their media people, lobbyists, speakers, organizers,
photographers, are seasoned professionals. They literally have the very
best that money can buy. They are stacked with folks who have worked in
many, many liberal causes and campaigns and take many years of
experience with them to the political arena. The Million Mom March is
anything but a grass roots group of angry housewives and mothers,
wanting to protect the children.

The Million Mom March is a very well organized, extremely well-funded,
professionally coached and directed group that is not about to go away
any time soon. They make great efforts to stack the deck with a
Republican here, and a gun owner there, but there is no question that
the rank and file of the MMM consists of the liberal wing of the
Democratic Party, and despite specific protestations from Donna Dees
Thomases to the contrary, there is little question in my mind, that the
Million Mom March,s agenda is being carefully orchestrated from the DNC
(Democratic National Committee), if not the White House, itself.
We are up against a formidable foe, indeed. This is no collection of
naïve, Alice in Wonderland, women with Tie died T-shirts and granny
glasses, tip toeing through the tulips. This is a professional,
seasoned, well-oiled political machine, that is connected to the highest
echelons of power, and has an apparently inexhaustible source of
funding. In addition, the Million Mom March can tap into a deep well of
easily emotionally swayed women foot soldiers, who are enthusiastically
prepared to do their bidding for them.

They are playing to a very sympathetic, if not complicitous media,
having their strings of motherhood and maternal concern, pulled by the
best politicos and lobbyists that money can buy. The Million Mom March
is opening new chapters around the country faster than Starbucks.
The right of the American people to keep and bear arms is under the
greatest assault since the birth of this nation. Under the guise of
motherhood and protecting the children, those who want to destroy the
Second Amendment and our way of life, have found the perfect useful
idiots to wage their war for them. Those of us who make fun of, or
belittle the Million Mom March, do so at our own risk.

Their leaders know how to manipulate the media, lobby the politicians,
and assassinate the character of their opposition. They learned their
trade, after all from the master, Bill Clinton. I don,t know what else I
can say, to prod those of us who cherish our freedom, to get off our ass
and take notice of what is going on. Our ladies went straight into the
belly of the beast, and stared directly into the face of evil.

Just seeing the expressions on their faces, as they poured out the details of
their two day adventure, made my blood run cold. This is for real,
folks. They have no intention of giving up. We will have further
detailed reports on the Million Mom convention shortly.

The time for complacency is over
Editor
Bob Glass
 
robnoel, I can certainly understand your frustration. Many of us here have been involved ourselves in various efforts to promote the RKBA. Some of those efforts greater than others, requiring more time and money. This web site is one very good example of one of those efforts.
However, knowing the Internet the way you do, do you feel it good for the RKBA to post an announcement such as this, particualrlly with the topic title on an open forum? I know there are many lurkers that would like nothing more than to be able to repeat some of these statements to further rally their supporters.
There are many here to that, until now, were not even aware of your efforts, the TRT or the rally. The topic title, which is sure to draw the attention of members and lurkers alike, alone would alienate some that may have been interested in joining your successor.
I understand of your frustation, many do, and the decision to leave or take a break from the group is a decision you alone can make. However, I personally feel it could possibly be better worded.
I would hate to see that topic title on several Internet gun discussion boards.
Thank you for the work you have placed into the organization to this point. You are a better man than I for having done so.

------------------
Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
Who's this Robby guy think he is anyway?

Just because most gun owners don't do jack to preserve one of their most cherished hobbies ... & Rob gets all upset. I didn't say all, I said most.

Jeez! Big wimp! (sarcasm off)

I'd bet that the majority of gun owners (as with most demographics) don't know who's their Rep (at state or fed level), let alone are aware of any pending legislation or write if they are.

Pretty sure Rob & I talked on the phone last night ;) (we live about 5 miles apart) - I took the day off to have a "Bacardi moment." Both of us very discouraged at the turn-out.

I firmly believe that until we, as gun owners or just freedom-loving people, make our rights a civil rights issue, we won't succeed. When legislation is even proposed that would strip us of any right, there should be 10K standing on that butt-head's doorstep. That "we" are not shows them that they can - & they will.

I'll never discount the fine work that others do or the much-needed political activism we all should be doing. Far from it, but I firmly think that the politicos, et al should be afraid to even attempt a violation of our rights.

Very interested in TUG & what comes of that. Can't make it in person but do have a "proxy" that will read a note I'm sending to the meet. We must unite the clans & fight this effectively, quit bickering about the 5% we can't agree on & concentrate on that 95% that we do.

BTW, TRT's not going away.
 
yep the lack of people just showing up is discouraging.

Last year i tried hard to rally people for the MFL in Washington DC

about a hundred showed up

The event will be going on again this October.
I have grown tired of trying to get people to show up.

Will MFL double its numbers this year? http://www.marchforliberty.org/

dZ
 
i have to chime in here:

what do you expect from gun owners?? we have no reason to "get active." we have no ally in the democrats, and the republicans say they are on the side of gun owners but then pass gun control laws. and the worst part of all is that most consevatives cant cut the umbiliclal cord with the republicans to support the libertarians (the only party of liberty) no matter how many times they take it in the rear from the republicans.

case in point: the 1994 "republican revolution." that was a total lie/scam on the citizens.

in short gun owners have almost no solid support in any legislature or executive office--anywhere, and they refuse to support the libertarians. so to most gun control has become futile fight. and as a result will invariably view activism as a useless waste of time.



------------------
-------------------------
Libertarians want freedom for you in America.
Libertarian Party Website

Vote for liberty--vote Harry Browne, Libertarian, for President in 2000
Harry Browne for President 2000 Website
 
Robby,
Just a couple of minor points.
Candy Lightner was the founder of MADD and it's the Richard and Rhoda Goldman fund www.goldmanfund.org that's behind the dough. The MMM has been taken over in name and direction by the Bell Campaign ie: Andrew McGuire of the Trauma Foundation. www.bellcampaign.org ---> make sure you have your blood pressure meds on hand b4 you follow this link.
 
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