Gun or Ammo Problem?

T

TVDean

New member
While test firing Cor-Bon's 305gr "Penetrators" in my new S&W 629-4 Mountain Gun I had a few problems.

1) The clyinder would NOT rotate after the fourth shot!
Upon examination, copper-jacket material was lodged in the "gap" area and effectively seized the cylinder from turning.

2) Cases very hard to eject.
I had to find a rock to hammer on the ejector rod !

I've fired only Winchester 240gr JSP's before this with no problems.

Is the Cor-Bon not compatable with this typical production revolver, or..............

I'm calling Cor-Bon
 
I've fired them in my SRH, they did come out a little stiff, but ok. They are loaded about as mean and nasty as it is safe to.
Even though your gun is a 44 MAGNUM, If you shoot monster hunting loads like that through it all the time, you will damage the gun in short order. If you want to keep the gun, you need to shoot loads on the "tamer" side of things. If you want to shoot monster loads you need a stronger gun, like a blackhawk, redhawk, Freedom Arms, or TC.
BTW, I'll bet those bucked like h*** in that gun.
 
The Smith should be plenty strong to handle the hottest 44Mag loads. As far as recoil, I really didn't notice much difference from that of the 240gr.

I bought the gun to shoot "Dangerous Game Stopping Loads"
Not 44Special.

I just talked to Terry at CorBon. He thinks there may be either a forcing cone problem (even though I've fired other brands of bullets with no problem?), or a burr on the cone, a misalignment maybe?

I don't know.......

He did say that the fact I had to beat the cases out of the cylinder was a sign that there was EXCESSIVE pressures.
He thinks maybe the barrel (chamber) is on the "tight" side, creating higher pressures.

How does all this sound to you experienced revolver gurus?
 
You may want to drop S&W a line on your concern.
I didn't mean my previous post to say you had a "weak" gun, only point out there are stroger platforms, SORRY.
As for an answer to your actual question: If it shoots other loads fine, its probably the ammo. I think Terry is on the right track, 300 or higher grain slugs are usually longer than the max COL listed in loading manuals. Your gun may not be compatible with cartiges longer than industry max.
If this is the case I'm sure someone here on TFL can help you locate some monster slugs the are within spec.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Ben, I thought you were pwicking on mwy wittle gun. ;-(

That's an interesting point, OAL that is.
But, wouldn't the OAL "max" in a revolver be at the point where the bullet protrudes past the cylinder preventing it from rotating? or is there another OAL concern in revolvers?
 
Depending on when the slug engages the rifling(the depth of the forcing cone), and how deep S&W bored your cylinder, your chamber pressure can have a VERY wide range vs. a different gun with an identical load.
BTW: ANYTHING chambered in 44mag I would hesitate to call "little".:D
 
SOME WORDS...

I DID NOT USE THE WORD "EXCESSIVE".
I DID FOR SURE SAY THOSE ARE MAXIMUM EFFORT LOADS WITH WHICH THAT PARTICULAR SMITH SIXGUN WAS NONE TOO IMPRESSED!
THE STRIPPING OF JACKET PARTICLES IS A BIG CLUE THAT THAT SIXGUN'S INNARDS ARE DIGGING INTO THE BULLET DURING ITS TRAVEL FROM CASE TO BARREL. I CANNOT SAY WHERE OR HOW IT IS DOING THIS FROM A DISTANCE.
IT IS ALSO MY OBSERVATION THAT SMITH 44MAGS, INCLUDING MY OWN, ARE THE SNOOTIEST OF ALL 44MAG SIXGUNS AS TO THEIR DIET AND THEIR ABILITY TO CONSUME TOP END LOADS. THE OLD STANDARD KEITH LOAD TIES UP MY M29 TIGHTER THAN A HUNDRED DOLLAR DRUM AND I CAN FORGET SHOOTING OUR TOPEND 44MAG LOADS IN IT.
ANY SMITH SIXGUN IN WHICH THE PRESSURE OF ONE FINGER WON'T EXTRACT THE BRASS, FROM ANY CALIBER, IS ABOVE THE PRESSURE LIMITATIONS OF THAT PARTICULARLY SIXGUN.
TVDEAN, YOU KEEP ME POSTED ON THIS AND WE'L GIT IT FIGURED OUT. CALL ME HERE AT THE PLANT; 700AM-500PM, MON-THUR.
 
Terry, QUIT YELLING!! :)

I'm gonna give S&W a call, see if they can shed some light, or create more questions
I let you know........
 
Terry is not yelling. He turned 97 the early part of this October and has to write big so he can read it. I know that be true cause he told me so.:D

Couple thoughts on the problem. I have yet to see a stainless Smith that had a smooth transition from chamber diameter to bullet diameter. That little step is often rough and causes a little leadin in the cylinder with light loads and a fair amount of jacket shaving with heavier loads. Also, if the chamber mouths are tighter than bullet size (common) the stouter loads tend to shave and accuracy goes down the tubes. And lastly, could be out of time......one or more chambers.

Whatever Terry comes up with.....you can take to the bank.

Sam
 
Besides cylinder issues, would it be worth slugging the bore to check the barrel?

IF the barrel was screwed in a bit tight on that gun and there's a constriction just out past the forcing cone, having Jim Stroh at Alpha do a "Taylor Throat" might help?
 
EASIER ANSWER

That specific load, in that specific gun, is (obviously) way too hot.

Don't do it again; contact a different ammo manufacturer for loads.

Recommend W-W 240g JSP's since you know they work, or maybe some heavy loads that work.

LOL
 
MANNERS?

That doesn't come across as harsh or sarcastic, does it?

Yeehawwwww!



---------------------------------------------------------

"all my ammo is factory ammo that will still allow your cylinder to ROTATE!"
 
MANNERS? We don't need no stinkin' manners! ...Oh...wait...this ISN'T "Shooter's Talk"...it's "TFL"...guess we DO NEED a modicum of civility...MY BAD...
BTW, WESHOOT2...your ammo allows cylinder rotation EVEN IN S&W revo's??? Well, color me surprised....mikey357
 
Whew!!!!!!

Can't fix your problem with you 'way' over there and me 'way' down here..
I can really, really attempt not to hurt your feelings about your gun and what it will or 'won't' perform with-very well.
Does that hurt?
I don't mean to say things just to hurt and I am being serious.
It is not a secret that a md 29 will not digest a steady diet of even Elmers load.
I bought a 29 in 69'
other Team members did too.
Yep, same thing happened to each of 'ours' and we only shot the 22.0/2400 240 SWC
S&W crawfished with us......"OH we just don't understand that"!
We did/do
In Mississippi talk: too much of a load and not enough gun!
Sold mine-
others did same.
The writting on the barrel is not the same as the 'writting on the wall'.
Still mad at me?
Don't be I found a gun(s) which eat the same load you mentioned as well as the old Elmer load--------name starts with R and ends in UGER
Get your fine Mountain Tamer repaired-if the cylinders have been milled too small------that has 'happpened'
Yours could be out of time due to many 'things'-----that can be fixed too.
When you get the gun ready to shoot and want to keep it for dangerous critters that bite and claw then your gun and the Cor Bons will slap him down---I hope, you hope, oh be careful.
I say the ammo is not the problem-quality wise. IN my day Super Vel was?were(?) the 'hot-rod' ammo boys and quality too.
We shot everything CorBon sells and on the State Range. It is top shelf. Wasn't paid to say that I would not say if unless it was true.
So Maybe a SBH or Redhawk is in your future?
My 1958 SBH loves the CorBons---Elmer too
Take what you want-leave the rest
Don Mallard
 
Don, very well written......:)he-he-he....

OK, so maybe I'm finding out the hard way what many have been saying all along. There's obviously a reason why S&W has made 4 different changes to the 629-4 Mountain Gun, it's not the best tool for launching heavy lead really-really fast.

So, recommendations?
I hear, "sell it, get a Ruger.." as well as "..sent it to someone to check the timing out and throat the barrel..."

I'll ponder it some more, meanwhile, I have to lay-off some more people. This economy sucks.
frown.gif
 
TV.......

Ben is absolutely correct.......
Let's start here--just my suggeston
The following is what I would do ..........
I do smith work if you don't then let a gunsmith check it out.
Let him or S&W put it back in perfect shape.......
The next suggestion will cause great wrinkles to come upon your forehead.
You will wiggle around in your puter chair and finally you begin to curse. It's OK because the problem can be solved-Mountian Tamer Gun and all.
I can suggest a cure IF you love to shoot.
So---get the Montain back in shape-if there is any thing wrong.
Do you handload?
Load 8 grns of Unique with standard primers
240 Hard Cast SWC Meister bullet
44 special case
After you shoot 50 of them in your big Smith you will be hooked on the combination.

Then---if it takes months to save the money then thats OK too because I have the answer for your desire to stop the assault from those dangerous critters that occupy our woodlands.
Oh you need to beware because they are sick of us humans anyway-----------------------
Get a Ruger Redhawk Stainless gun
Send it to Mr. Hamilton S. Bowen at Bowen Classic Arms
in Louisville, Tn
He will shorten the barrel to 4"
Round the-butt frame and reshape the factory grips
Action tune and install a over-travel stop
Bevel the cylinder
He calls it a ALPINE conversion
I call it a gun which you thought you getting when you obtained the Mountain gun which has, apparently, errupted.
The Alpine Gun will absolutely handle your hot rod ammo
and the Grissly that awaits your violation of his defined territory Don't start yelling at me about the money either!
It is not my fault you started this gun quest.
You are involved so you need to feed the desire and get the equipment which will do the job for you and then you will be happy. That is a guarantee from me,
Until then----------suffer-beast!
Don Mallard
 
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