Gun dealers: Friends of the 2nd amendment?

Are gun dealers as a group, a FRIEND to the 2nd amendment?

  • No, federal gun control laws keep their competition away

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • Yes, making money off the 2nd am is the same as being a friend to it

    Votes: 5 71.4%
  • Total voters
    7
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Vermont Carry

Moderator
It's easy to assume, and for YEARS I followed the assumption that gun dealers were the epitome of "warriors" for the second amendment.

There's one I know of that openly supports federal gun control laws. He doesn't think that ANY are unconstitutional. I think that this is because these laws keep the COMPETITION away :barf:

If you're like me, you've met a LOT of gun dealers in your life. To be fair, I only know of one other dealer who supported federal gun control laws. She treated her customers like garbage and I think is out of business. No one I talk to knows what happened to her gun store.

If you've ever listened to "gun talk" with Tom what's his face, he always points out that gun dealers on the whole have TERRIBLE people skills. When his show was ON here, I listened semi regularly and heard him say that a lot. I think part of that is because many gun dealers know that your choices are extremely limited. Your choice of gun and getting a good price on it (finding two FFLs with the same brand and model for comparison shopping is not as easy as it sounds) and your choice of dealer are very limited. Lots of guys have FFLs, but finding two with a decent selection requires a lot of driving. Because of this, they know your over a barrel if you WANT a certain gun.

It's not even CLOSE. By far the rudest businesspeople (and some of their employees) I've ever met have been gun dealers. Even gun counter guys at some of the bigger retailers have arrogant attitudes toward the customer that have left me speechless. I've started spending my money on other things as a result.

Some of this is because the whole gun business has been banished almost out of sight, and reduced by the government as far as it can, so gun dealers are desperate to stay in business. Crankiness I could understand, but I sure am running across a lot of gun dealers and their staff who act like they've been anointed by government just because they have that FFL. These same dealers have admitted to me that they will fight tooth and nail to repeal federal gun laws and abolish the institutionalized criminals at the BATFE.
 
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"do you support gun control laws?" isn't usually the first question I ask when I walk in a gun store. But, as I chat with gun dealers (and typically they are pretty friendly people....in fact, often they are more people friendly than most other businesses out there...as if they were in it as much forvthe visiting and conversation as the money they bring in)

BUT, from the impression I get overall is that most of them can't stand gun or any kind of weapon control laws. BUT, they nevertheless have to abide by them or lose their business (or worse) or go to jail. I have gotten some pretty sympathetic impressions when they have to give me a negative on all the things you can't do because of federal law XY&Z.

But there are always exceptions to the rule.

The worst, and just about the only, bad experience I had with a dealer (and this is also a notice to the public) is a place called Simmons Sporting Goods in Bastrop Louisiana. All of his employees are very friendly and polite. His gunsmith is (or was, I haven't been to the store in about 3 years) incredibly nice and polite and generous with his time. An non active (as opposed to Ex) Marine who hit it off well with good ol' dad (also non active Marine). Simmons himself is a 100% creep. He seems to go out of his way to be rude and ugly customers. He gets none of my business. At best he belongs behind closed doors writing checks to his friendly employees and needs to stay as far away from the counters as possible
 
Ralph D'Amicco, the owner of Riley's in Hooksett, NH, is on the board of Gun Owners of New Hampshire, and is a strong, longtime supporter of firearms freedom.
 
The attitudes of the local gun shop owners around here make me want to vomit.

No respect for the RKBA. It's all money.
 
VermontCarry - I agree with you. Gun dealers are not unlike gun owners in general. Very few are ardent RKBA supporters. Most are in it for personal reasons. There's just not a lot of idealists in the world anymore. This is not necessarily a bad thing. :)

-Dave
 
fewer idealists = good thing? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Um, how does that work? The founding fathers were ALL hard core idealists (who didn't agree with each other all the time, but agreed on enough good core principles to save us until 1933). Having fewer idealists means you have MORE people who are more concerned with whatever happens to be "mainstream" at the moment. Having fewer idealists means you have more people afraid to tick off the GROUP. Having fewer idealists means you have more people who are willing to compromise with an enemy just to end the fight.

I think you want "harmony" at the expense of having to hear from people like me. I don't think you want to DEFEAT the ideas of people like me, you want to find ways to shut us up so you can "go along to get along." I believe you want the easiest route to the status quo that you can find. I believe you're more concerned with being LIKED by our enemies. I think you're ashamed of correct principles to some extent. I think you're AFRAID of being called a "kook" or a "wacko" or a "tin foiler" or an "extremist" or a "fringe" by the despicable COWARDS out there who try to label people like me as "fringe" because we REMIND them of their cowardice and compromising.

People who hide behind what's considered "mainstream" are people who don't have any real principles at all. Their "principles" are whatever they have to do to not be considered "extreme" by group or the establishment. Those aren't principles at all.
 
Goodness! :eek: I seem to have touched a nerve. :D

You certainly have read a lot into those two little sentences of mine. How about you let me tell you what I think and what I believe instead of throwing gasoline onto the fire.

mmkay?
 
Oh yeah? Well I think I see too much generalizing, name calling, assuming, and spewing of absolutes in this thread to participate in the ‘pole’. It’s not much of a pole when the choices are obviously intended to steer the pole-taker.

Your problem is you try to shove your opinion down everyone's throat rather than showing interest in having a discussion.
 
Well said, Trip, but let's not get side-tracked and go off topic.

VC - Gun dealers are in business primarily to make money. They're no different than you and I. We work so we can live.

To remain in business, gun dealers must obey many federal firearms laws regardless of whether they believe them to be constitutional or not. What would you have the idealistic gun dealer do? Disregard the law and get driven out of business by the BATFE? What purpose would that serve?
 
Well Trip, I just don't think principles require discussion because you either HAVE them or you're concerned with kissing up to the group (which may include an enemy). At this point, I think every person is either in favor of true liberty or they are a government loyalist. I honestly think it really is that simple. If you really listen to people, many will try like the dickens to be in BOTH camps, but it's pretty easy to tell which camp they're ultimately loyal to.
 
To remain in business, gun dealers must obey many federal firearms laws regardless of whether they believe them to be constitutional or not. What would you have the idealistic gun dealer do? Disregard the law and get driven out of business by the BATFE? What purpose would that serve?
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Yes I'm aware of that, and I never said that dealers should do anything of the sort. I just never did. What I'm talking about here is attitude and loyalty.
 
And how do you say gun dealers should express that attitude and loyalty?

Vermont Carry said:
The founding fathers were ALL hard core idealists
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Yeah. That "all men are created equal" thing really worked out well for the slaves. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah. That "all men are created equal" thing really worked out well for the slaves.
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A minute ago you didn't want to "get side tracked and off topic." :rolleyes:

And how do you say gun dealers should express that attitude and loyalty?
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I answered that from the get go (thus turning it into a question is slightly evasive) when I explained what many dealers are CURRENTLY expressing-i.e. their SUPPORT for federal gun control laws. I've even heard dealers say how much crime is allegedly being prevented by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and/or the Gun control act of 1968, or the Brady law, or and on and on.
 
At this point, I think every person is either in favor of true liberty or they are a government loyalist.
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This statement has more of a tone of "agree with me or you're a bad person." Define "true liberty" and "government loyalist" and I might agree... or maybe not.
 
This statement has more of a tone of "agree with me or you're a bad person.
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I suppose if you completely REstate what I said and ADD things I didn't say. I never said it was about "agreeing with me," nor did I say that supporting federal gun control automatically makes you a "bad person."
 
Define "true liberty" and "government loyalist." You made a statement dividing everyone into two groups - tell us where the dividing line is between the two groups.
 
Vermont Carry,
Honestly, I agree with:
Um, how does that work? The founding fathers were ALL hard core idealists (who didn't agree with each other all the time, but agreed on enough good core principles to save us until 1933). Having fewer idealists means you have MORE people who are more concerned with whatever happens to be "mainstream" at the moment. Having fewer idealists means you have more people afraid to tick off the GROUP. Having fewer idealists means you have more people who are willing to compromise with an enemy just to end the fight.
Click to expand...

As a rule, I agree with and think most people (not you Bluesman) today are like:

I think you want "harmony" at the expense of having to hear from people like me. I don't think you want to DEFEAT the ideas of people like me, you want to find ways to shut us up so you can "go along to get along." I believe you want the easiest route to the status quo that you can find. I believe you're more concerned with being LIKED by our enemies. I think you're ashamed of correct principles to some extent. I think you're AFRAID of being called a "kook" or a "wacko" or a "tin foiler" or an "extremist" or a "fringe" by the despicable COWARDS out there who try to label people like me as "fringe" because we REMIND them of their cowardice and compromising.
Click to expand...

and this

Well Trip, I just don't think principles require discussion because you either HAVE them or you're concerned with kissing up to the group (which may include an enemy). At this point, I think every person is either in favor of true liberty or they are a government loyalist. I honestly think it really is that simple. If you really listen to people, many will try like the dickens to be in BOTH camps, but it's pretty easy to tell which camp they're ultimately loyal to.
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A lot of people are like that these days.
BUT, I think you are shooting yourself and our cause of liberty in the foot. You are doing too much talking and not asking enough questions. Taking one statement made by Bluesman and lecturing him on being wishy washy and what a suck up he is is the wrong approach. You turn the discussion into slogans and shouting rather than a civil discourse.
From what I an tell, you were way off. He said that gun dealers regardless of how they feel have to abide by the laws on the books.

You can be an idealist, but you also have to be realistic to a certain degree. As I said earlier in the thread, I have met gun dealers to shudder at all the federal and state laws that regulate guns and other weapons.....but they still have to earn a living AND stay out of jail.
Yes, the Founding Fathers and many succeeding generations after them were high idealists who would have been even more offended than you, I or anybody on TFL at the laws that have been passed in the last 60 or even 150 years. BUT, they had a pretty good solid generation of men who were able to stand up as a body, had a common goal, common culture and most importantly a common worldview. People don't have that anymore (as you and I clearly agree). Our society has been so dumbed down by public education, political correctness and gradual worship of our political figures and, worse, sports and hollywood celebrities. Most people have the idea "sure there are things wrong, I support Republican A,B or C and/or Democrat X,Y and Z maybe he will vote no on the latest bill. But as long as I have my widescreen TV watching Survivor and reruns of Seinfeld, my hunting rifle and the NY Yankees win the World Series I'm good to go." The goal is winning the hearts and minds of our communities not violating this or that gun control law just because it is illegitimate. If a gun dealer stays in business, voices his beliefs to his customers and shows them that he is an honest good hard working fellow and neighbor (as opposed to a nutcase surrounded by guns) then that, under the circumstances, in an of itself is a true warrior for our cause

You of course, know this and most people here do too. You want to rally men to your cause, let your message come as an encouragement, not as an presumed accusation.

Bluesman,
I understand your latter points, but you still haven't really explained what you mean by fewer idealists not being a bad thing. Explain.
 
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