Gun control is not/should not be a "left/right" issue!

I'm glad that Dreamer is pro-gun. Cool. Let's get the group hug out of the way, first. :p

Both parties have supported various gun control legislation, but it is typically the Democrats who propose the truly draconian legislation (a/k/a "sensible gun safety legislation") such as banning handguns and banning evil-looking guns ("assault weapons").
 
For starters thank you to Defense18 for comprehending my post and defending it.

Exactly, we should be sticking together, not arguing among each other. The enemy is gun grabbers irregardless of what their party is or their thoughts on economics are.
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Yes the enemy are the gun grabbers. Unfortunately until they prove themselves as pro gun I must continue to support those with whom I can count on for backing my guns. Right now they happen to be Republicans, not all but most.

My theory is if I support the rare pro gun Demoncrat and he gets elected, his election might sway the majority to his party thus putting me and him at the mercy of the party as a whole. This would surely lead to gun control which both I and the demoncrat I voted for were against. The end result is gun control. Until the party or ideology as a whole becomes pro gun they must never gain power by my hand. The job of changing your party is yours. My hands are full trying to get my party to remain conservative.
 
The Most Sweeping Gun Ban Ever Introduced In Congress

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=2668

The Most Sweeping Gun Ban Ever Introduced In Congress; McCarthy Bill Bans Millions More Guns Than The Clinton Gun Ban

Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.)

How many Democrats will support this (probably all the leftist)
How many Conservative Republicans will support this (few if any)

Sounds like a left/right issue to me (gun control)?
 
The majority of those in congress with gun control agendas are Democrats (Shumer, McCarthy, Feinstein, Clinton, etc.) In my mind that makes the issue a left/right one.
 
A simple review of the history of gun control in this country makes it very apparent that it is primarily a right-left issue.

While there have certainly been Republicans who have supported gun control bills, and Democrats who have opposed them, virtually every gun control bill of any consequence since 1960 has come from the Democratic party.

Al Gore's support for gun control policies is widely seen to have been a contributing factor in his losing two traditionally Democratic states -- Michigan and West Virginia -- as well as his home state of Tennessee in the 2000 election.

Strengthening gun control laws has been part of the Democratic Party's national platform for decades. And, even though Democrats moved to downplay the party's role in gun control legislation after 2000, the subject remains part of the Democratic Party's national platform, only waiting to be dusted off when the situation becomes beneficial to them.

Democrats have, by their words, action, and party history, stereotyped themselves as being the party of gun control.



As for the contention that Democrats are not socialist, once again, the history speaks for itself. Creation of and massive expansions of the welfare system, absolute opposition to doing anything that might help solve the growing Social Security insolvency problem (OTHER than raising taxes), nationalized health care, even calls for taking over some private industry...

That, my friend, is socialism in action, and the Democrats are the poster child for it in this country today.
 
Democrats have, by their words, action, and party history, stereotyped themselves as being the party of gun control.
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true.

On the other hand, folks like Daydreamer, and some other other "see the light" liberals show us that it is possible to be a progressive on social issues yet still be cognizant of the important role the 2nd am plays.

I for one, being a social progressive myself (albiet a warmongering economic dinosaur) am glad that many more intellectual members of the progressive left are joining the gun movement.

These are the folks we need to reach out to, freedom loving socialists, gay, lesbian, transgendered, people of colour, feminists...all the folks who used to be scared off by the fringe right but who now realize that the gun movement is no longer a neonazi bubba movement but a true part of social progressivism.

Welcome daydreamer, dont let the fringers here scare you off. As you know, both sides have them. Discourse can solve more issues than screeeching.

I hope you are defending your position on those fringy left wing boards ;)

WildallpowertothepeopleAlaska
 
From the Democratic party 2004 platform document:

http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

"We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do."

From the Republican party 2004 platform document:

http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf

"Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns,which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment. Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters, to increase access to hunting clinics and safety programs for children and adults, and to improve opportunities for hunting for Americans with disabilities.

We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense. To protect the rights and safety of law-abiding citizens, the Congress passed and President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active and retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed guns in public while off-duty. We support efforts by the Administration and Congress to enhance the instant background check system for gun purchases and to ensure that records of lawful transactions are destroyed in a timely manner. We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights. We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens."

In my view the official stand of the Republican party is much more pro-gun than the vaguely anti-gun stand taken by the Democratic party.

Tim
 
There is a much larger issue here though. To argue whether it is a right/left issue or not is actually moot. The power in Congress is divided between Republicans and Democrats based on the party affiliation of the elected representatives. Whoever holds the majority holds the power. Even if a "pro-gun" Democrat is elected, if his election empowers the Democratic party in Congress, it is a serious problem. There is no denying that there are many more pro-gun control Democrats than there are pro-gun Democrats. Thus, the Democrats would be empowered to legislate as they see fit, which includes extensive gun control legislation.

Some may argue that a pro-gun Democrat would not side with their pro-gun control colleagues. However, it is important to distinguish between pro-gun Democrats and Democrats that are NOT pro-gun control. Understand that in Congress, a lot of favors are traded for votes. Thus, any politician who does not hold a strong position in on an issue may vote strictly with party lines simply for what it may offer in the future. One must acknowledge that there are considerably more pro-gun control and indifferent (NOT pro-gun control) Democrats than there are pro-gun Democrats. While putting your vote behind someone you believe in is great, there is a much bigger picture to consider.
 
Both parties have become massive engines of spend, tax, and mind control...

No where do I see a party / movement that is fiscally conservative and socially liberal... It appears that we have found the limits of 'democracy'...
<we are actually a Republic with Representation>
The writers of the Constitution understood that the danger to any democracy is when segments of the electorate realizes they can vote in representatives who will transfer to them benefits from the public treasury at the expense of other segments of the electorate - progressive taxation, entitlement programs, etc. ad nauseum...

We are retracing the last days of the Roman Empire where we push and shove for our place to slop at the public trough while the barbarians are gathering outside the gates...

denny
 
"We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do."

All well and nice. The Democrats have had similar wording in their political platform since at least the 1980s.

Unfortuantely, it's pretty apparent that few people in the party actually READ their platform.

All too often Democrats equate the Second Amendment ONLY with hunting -- "we won't take hunter's guns from them"

Keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists most often takes the form of attempts to enact sweeping bans on entire classes of firearms.

Take, for example, the .50-cal. rifle debate. "The choice of terrorists who want to bring down aircraft!"

Doesn't matter that no terrorist has ever attacked a plane with a .50, or that no terrorist has ever been found in possession of a .50.

Gotta ban them!
 
As we've discussed so often...the simplest thing is to decide finally

that the 2nd amd... is for the protection of the government and pertains only to their Armies and local law enforcement.....

Don't be fooled, the government can decide this in a heart beat...

Best example I can give you is in my home state (SC) where we had video poker for years.... because we had to pay for the damage from Hurricane Hugo... how?... $2000 yearly 'permit' on each machine.... now we have the state lottery to pay for higher education.... what do I mean by all this? Our State constitution clearly says gambling is illegal.... but neither video poker or the state lottery is gambling.... according to the legislature.

We don't have to mess with the constitution... we, you, or them can always just change what the words mean.
 
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