Gun control is not/should not be a "left/right" issue!

D

Day Dreamer

Inactive
IMHO, it is important that we take things for what they are and discontinue this trend of stereotyping all anti's as socialists/communist/leftist/whatever.

I am a socialist (OH NOES! Get the pitchforks!). Yet, I vehemently oppose any form of gun control. As does every other true socialist I've met. It's not hard to tell a false socialist from a real one; a real socialist knows that time and again governments both right and left wing have revoked the people's most basic right to self defense as a means to oppress and control said people, under the pretext that the seizure of guns was being done to make the populace safer. For this reason, amongst a multitude of others, true socialists recognize the fundamental right of people to self defense from each other, and most importantly, government.

It's crucially important that you not be fooled by people who proclaim to be leftist yet in the same sentence advocate gun control. These people represent one of the worst forms of deception, one they themselves may not be aware of, yet are guilty of. True leftists always act in the people's interests, and it IS NEVER IN THE PEOPLE'S INTEREST TO BE DISARMED. Never.

BOTTOM LINE: Beware of people claiming to act on the people's behalf ('leftists") while doing things obviously not in the people's best interests. And please, for the benefit of all of us, call them out for what they are. They are not leftists, they are not socialists, they are not democrats, they are dangerously deluded individuals suffering from an inability to look rationally at the world. These very same caliber of people are the ones most eager to swallow up the propaganda and lies of an authoritarian government and accept them as truths.

It was ignorance and idiocy of the same type that allowed the governments of the former USSR, China, Cuba, Nazi Germany, etc. to so effectively oppress their people.

Fear false leftists.

edit: gun control is not a political issue; it is an issue of common sense.
 
I agree, gun control is an authoritarian / non authoritarian thing more the a left/right issue.

The nazi's were considered the extreme right, yet they embraced gun control.

Likewise Israel's economy and politics is way to the left of the US's and would be
considered "commie" by alot of people in the US, yet Israel has one of the highest amounts of private gun ownership per capita of any nation on the planet.
 
Fun seeing these new posters on a variety of forums telling others why they should ignore semi-conventional political alignment with an important upcoming election looming. Some of us are just getting others past the blinkers of party affiliation to consider actual left and right and now, hey, gee, that doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

Since Socialism itself isn't in the people's best interest your opposition to gun control is without a foundation. Gun control, actually firearms elimination/people control, IS a leftist issue. IF you are a socialist and oppose it then you are both a rarity and unlikely to stay in your current position. You'll either outgrow the failed concept of state sponsored theft or you'll realize it can't be done effectively to an armed populace.
 
Are you trying to redefine leftist?

Swimming against the current there. hence the Day Dreamer' tag I suppose.

And Gun control IS a right - left issue in the reality of politics.

Utopian theorizing is the correct title of this thread.

Mediocre try.....NEXT BATTER UP!
 
Since Socialism itself isn't in the people's best

and neither is unrestrained capitalism, yeah lets go back to the days of robber barrons, child labor, rampant pollution, and 7 day work weeks 14 hour days and unsafe working conditions

Gun control, actually firearms elimination/people control, IS a leftist issue.

which is why the nazi's are considered the extreme right :barf:

also Israel and Switzerland have very lefty politics compared to the US, yet they are allowed to keep fully automatics military assualt weapons in their homes

explain that one

anyone who thinks the democratic socialism present in modern day democracies is the same as the Stalinist Soviet Union or China under Mao, is delusional and needs to take a political science class
 
mmafan.........Your writings show your naiveté or youthfully lack of scope or WHATEVER is got you twisted.

As this thread progresses I hope you will note the great amount of education on REALITY you are being exposed to and apply your 'open mind' to the fact that you are incorrect in your conclusions.

Sometimes putting random pieces together may SEEM right.....but reality is that they don't actually fit together.
 
mmafan.........Your writings show your naiveté or youthfully lack of scope or WHATEVER is got you twisted.

As this thread progresses I hope you will note the great amount of education on REALITY you are being exposed to and apply your 'open mind' to the fact that you are incorrect in your conclusions.

Sometimes putting random pieces together may SEEM right.....but reality is that they don't actually fit together.

are you gonna just tell me that I am naive/young/whatever or are you gonna offer any concrete evidence of what you are proclaiming?

opinions are like you know what, everybody got one
 
Some people have more credibility than others, based on their previous actions and the thoughts expressed in their previous statements. Their opinions tend to carry more weight.

John
 
Some people have more credibility than others, based on their previous actions and the thoughts expressed in their previous statements. Their opinions tend to carry more weight.

John

lmao so because you like his opinion better then mine, his is right and mine is wrong :barf:

like i stated earlier if you can provide hard evidence of what you claiming, then I will listen

if you gonna just hurl insults and offer opinion, well sorry..........save it for someone who might believe it
 
Fun seeing these new posters on a variety of forums telling others why they should ignore semi-conventional political alignment with an important upcoming election looming. Some of us are just getting others past the blinkers of party affiliation to consider actual left and right and now, hey, gee, that doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, I have no intent to attempt to sway your vote in the next US election. I find all the candidates to be unacceptable.

Since Socialism itself isn't in the people's best interest your opposition to gun control is without a foundation. Gun control, actually firearms elimination/people control, IS a leftist issue. IF you are a socialist and oppose it then you are both a rarity and unlikely to stay in your current position. You'll either outgrow the failed concept of state sponsored theft or you'll realize it can't be done effectively to an armed populace.
Click to expand...

As much as your average TFL'r abhors anti's that want to ban guns yet have absolutely no pratical knowledge of them (rightly so), I find it a bit ironic so many are so ready to offer opinions on something they have no pratical knowledge of. I support no such theft, yet am still a Socialist.

Socialism can only exist if it comes about Democratically, and remains Democratic. All other "socialisms" are false, and will inevitably fail.

edit: and btw: every single left wing or right wing politician that has ever acted differently than the stereotype (right for, left against) is a counter example disproving the fact that gun control is a left/right wing issue. None of you will deny that Reagan was right wing, yet he did not always act in support of gun owner's rights (that's putting it mildly). And thats just one example in a sea of others.
 
Not a socialist, but more liberal than the average. Think of myself as a gun toting liberal.

Guns can be good or bad, just like anything. It's a "thing" that depends upon a user to qualify it good or bad. Mine are good.

B

Dec 15, 1791
 
For me its simple. Many Demoncrats have fought to ban my guns few Republicans have. Many Demoncrats are on the left while many Republicans are on the right. So reality seems to prove that gun control is a left vs right issue. I wish it wasn't but it is. What other country's leftist or socialists do isn't relevant to America. Leftist/socialist leaders in this country are mostly anti gun.

So this statement is supported by facts.........In the United States of America right now in history gun control is a left vs right issue. It is the reason I will never ever vote for a demoncrat (at least until they change as a party to pro gun).
 
"lmao so because you like his opinion better then mine, his is right and mine is wrong"

What made you think my casual observation was addressed to, or at, you?

<chuckle>

John
 
So this statement is supported by facts.........In the United States of America right now in history gun control is a left vs right issue. It is the reason I will never ever vote for a demoncrat (at least until they change as a party to pro gun).

Thats funny because here in IL in 1998 the pro gun candidate for governer was the democrat from southern IL (Poshard) and the anti was the Republican (Ryan)

After serving one term Ryan was convicted of:

On April 17, 2006, the jury found Ryan and Warner guilty on all counts — a total of 18 federal public corruption convictions for Ryan alone.[10] However, when ruling on post-trial motions, the judge dismissed two counts of the convictions against Ryan for failure of proof.[11] Ryan said that he would appeal the verdict.

Patrick Fitzgerald, the federal prosecutor, noted: "Mr. Ryan steered contracts worth millions of dollars to friends and took payments and vacations in return. When he was a sitting governor, he lied to the F.B.I. about this conduct and then he went out and did it again." He charged that one of the most egregious aspects of the corruption was Ryan's action after learning that bribes were being paid for licenses. Instead of ending the practice he tried to end the investigation that had uncovered it, Fitzgerald said, calling the moment "a low-water mark for public service."[12]

Your assertation that democrats are alway anti and republicans alway pro is false.

I would rather have Bill Richardson then Gulianni in office if I was limited to those 2 choices.
 
What made you think my casual observation was addressed to, or at, you?

<chuckle>

John

Because you posted it immediately under my post, I appoligize if it wasnt directed at me.
 
"Your assertation that democrats are alway anti and republicans alway pro is false."

This was never stated, implied, or asserted. ThreeGun simply stated that it is largely true that a Republican politician is pro-gun and a Democratic politician is pro-gun control. He did not say that every Republican is pro gun, nor did he say that every Democrat is anti-gun. Rest assured, however, that the IL politicians you cited are the exception, not the rule.
 
Geez, can't anyone applaud the guy for being able to be against gun grabbing despite his other beliefs? I for one am glad he's able to intellectually discern for himself that disarming people is bad on his own basis of thought. You guys should be a lot more encouraging rather than disparaging. You don't have to support his other beliefs. Be glad that he shares one with you and let that be that.
 
Geez, can't anyone applaud the guy for being able to be against gun grabbing despite his other beliefs? I for one am glad he's able to intellectually discern for himself that disarming people is bad on his own basis of thought. You guys should be a lot more encouraging rather than disparaging. You don't have to support his other beliefs. Be glad that he shares one with you and let that be that.

Exactly, we should be sticking together, not argueing among each other. The enemy is gun grabbers irregardless of what their party is or their thoughts on economics are.
 
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